Sad

[DblT81]

What is going on in Lincoln? This is becoming sad.

LINCOLN, Neb. (AP) - Katie Robinette, a star freshman on last season's Nebraska basketball team, was arrested late Thursday night for drunken driving.
http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_np=0&u_pg=38&u_sid=377101

[OhMandy]

No this can't be. There aren't any criminals at Neb. No they're perfect angels. Please!!!!!!!!

[kate dawg]

I echo DBLT81...this really is sad and not anything to laugh about.

I've always thought of women's hoops to be beyond this kind of crap...you know, you just never see it. Then that Florida player is arrested for assaulting her girlfriend early last fall, and now Robinette arrested for drunk driving.

Women's basketball has always been such a family-oriented sport. I look at what one of the CU assistants said at their banquet about how the players are the role models for her brother, and I think that's true for a lot of young people. People enjoy women's basketball not just for the quality of the game, but also for the quality of the people.

I hope Katie figures her stuff out and gets it together. I'll be curious to see how NU handles this. I can't imagine this is something Sanderford is used to.

[This message has been edited by kate dawg (edited 04-26-2002).]

[OhMandy]

Sorry maybe I'm more jaded than others. But we are talking about 17-23 year old kids. Kids being the key word. No matter how mature we think they young women are, they are really kids. They make the same mistakes as any 17-23 year old kid. To think that no women's college basketball player doesn't drink or hasn't drove home drunk is crazy and naive. It happens. The only good thing about this is that she didn't hurt anybody.

[kate dawg]

Well it hasn't happened at CU, and it hasn't happened anywhere else that I know of either...so that's why I am so shocked.

[ChipperF1]

Shocking. Absolutely shocking. I don't know what Katie Robinette's malfunction is, but this incident could provide a telling clue. I'm reading the articule over and over and still can't believe she would do something like this.

But after a year of watching the Enron-Huskers, you never know. I hope Paul has the football team's attorney on speed dial, I think he needs him.

This isn't a teenage "mistake". It's a force-one grade "A" screw up of the first magnitude that no human being should make. Thank the Lord she didn't hurt anyone else. If I was head coach at Nebraska she wouldn't be a member of the team, period.

Given the new "no tolerance" climate of the school toward this issue in the last two years, it will be interesting to see how Nebraska handles it.

I'm praying for Katie right now. Lord knows she needs it. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/frown.gif



[This message has been edited by ChipperF1 (edited 04-26-2002).]

[OhMandy]

I would hope that Neb has a no tolerance policy now after all the crap that happened in the mid 90's. It's one thing about the steriods. "My son you've gained so much muscle in a short period of time. You must be eating really well" But another things when football players are beating and raping woman.

If I were the coach or AD, I would suspend her for the year. I would make her attend AA classes and that class where they take people charged with DUI's to the morgue or a junk yard to see what can happen when the somebody drives drunk.

[ChipperF1]

"But another things when football players are beating and raping women."

I agree with you here Mandy, but I hope you jump on other programs that have similar problems with the same intensity. These problems happen all over the collegiate football landscape, not just in Lincoln. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/wink.gif

As for this recent example of stupidity of the first mangitude, State law would call for an immdiate suspension of her license. Katie being an underaged drinker will also be cited for underaged drinking the suspension would be at least a year or more, even though this is a first offense. She will also have to undergo some type of treatment program, and perhaps spend some time in one of Lancaster County's fine correctional lodgings. Treatment programs will definitely involve some of the "scared straight" tactics in which you speak of. Having worked with MADD back home in the past I've seen some of these first hand.
She will also have to undergo a full process of reinstatement of the license which will include proof of completion of alcohol treatment, a mandatory 8 hours driver's safety course and she will have to take a complete retest in order to drive again.

University policies toward drinking have changed drastically in the last three years. Once she goes through the university's process, which includes official and peer-driven components, I doubt you will see Katie Robinette in a Nebraska uniform this year, if at all if University and Athletic Department policy holds true in this regard. The AD has already handed out one decision on a football player in a similar situation and it was quite draconian in nature compared to past practice. The player, already suspended for a year, was told the suspension from competition would be permanment. Personally, this would be my position in this case as well.

My prayer are with Katie and her parents right now, and what they must be going through. I am still very shocked that she made such a stupid choice. Drinking is bad enough (If I were a college head coach, I'd cancel a kid's participation for that alone.) but the driving part really angers me. If I were head coach, it would be a cold day in hell before she played for me.











[This message has been edited by ChipperF1 (edited 04-26-2002).]

[Jennifer]

I remember in HS that it was strictly taboo for any of the athlete's to drink and if word got back to coach--big trouble.
Of course, we also had a healthy respect for our coach (and in my case, for my parents!) so I don't know that anyone tested those waters (though there were plenty of non-athletes who drank plenty). Of course, this was HS and not college where you have an entirely different environment.

My Juco coach knew of the weekend that I experienced too much alcohol for the first time (soph year). She didn't punish me directly, but I sure felt it in practice afterwards and she wasn't sympathetic at all. I think she had the philosophy that 19-20 years olds will do that sort of thing and as long as noone gets hurt...

I hope she learns her lesson from this and considers herself lucky. This could have turned out much much worse.
Also have to wonder where she was drinking that night and what 'friends' allowed her to leave in her drunken state.

[OhMandy]

I hope you jump on other programs that have similar problems with the same intensity. These problems happen all over the collegiate football landscape, not just in Lincoln.


Did you not see that post about Miami and the Rose Bowl filled with probation officers? I could make a list of many colleges where this happens. Va Tech, Clemson, Colorado, ucla. Hell that drunken ucla QB got TWO damn DUI's within 6-10 months. But he wasn't suspended. That guy has some serious issues he better clean up before he hurts somebody.


Drinking is bad enough (If I were a college head coach, I'd cancel a kid's participation for that alone.)

Wait a second here. What if a kid is 21? She is legally allowed to drink. What if she's having a glass of wine with dinner? What if she had a couple beers out of season?

While I agree drinking during the season is stupid and will catch up to any athlete, I don't think a coach can or should kick any player off the team if that player is 21 and is having a drink in the off season. I mean let's not be naive here, many kids look forward to turning 21. They are going to celebrate by going to a bar and having a few drinks. That's almost a rite of passage.

[ChipperF1]

"Hell that drunken ucla QB got TWO damn DUI's within 6-10 months. But he wasn't suspended."

If the kid played for me, he'd never see the football field on my watch. I remember that story, it angered me too.

"I don't think a coach can or should kick any player off the team if that player is 21 and is having a drink in the off season. I mean let's not be naive here, many kids look forward to turning 21. They are going to celebrate by going to a bar and having a few drinks. That's almost a rite of passage."

Maybe not, but that would be my policy and If I did catch a kid who was 21 on ballclub drinking, there would be hell to play on-season or off-season. If nothing else for setting a bad example for the younger kids on the team. How can I tell my underaged players don't do it? How can I send my players to grade schools to tell kids "don't do it" when they are out there doing it? I understand that they are kids, ten years ago I was one of those goofy college kids, but when you put that uniform on, in my mind you have an added responsibility. Is it fair no, but as my track coach in high school said, "When you got the uniform, you got the responsibility. Don't want the responsibility? GIMME BACK MY STUFF!"

That statement "let's not be naive here" in my opinion is a cop out. It is a surrender to permissiveness. Is it a wonder we have teenage drinking rates rising again? Why? Because we have too many people saying, "let's not be naive, kids will be kids."

As for the "right of passage"? I was 21 once too, even though I am a dyed-in-the-wool conservative crumudgeon now, I remember and it wasn't all that long ago. If kids wanna drink, fine, but on my ballclub? It wouldn't be a good idea.

[YCN]

Kate Dawg, your statement that this type of thing hasn't happened (regarding women's basketball) in Boulder strikes me as somewhat naive. As a Boulder resident the pervasive college atmosphere of drinking and partying is obvious to me, so I suspect to say that it hasn't happened here really just says that no women's basketball players have been caught drinking and driving.

I believe in punishments that fit the crime, and certainly it is serious when an underage drinker gets caught driving under the influence. For the majority, however, the experience and shame and humiliation are enough to cure that person from driving drunk again. Then again, for problem drinkers it usually doesn't, because they are in a state of denial to begin with. Only time will tell whether or not that is the case here.

There are a great many behavioral problems afflicting our society, of which drunk driving is only a small part. For another perspective of what can happen to a female basketball player, I offer this column from Clint Talbott of the Daily Camera. All is not well in Boulder.
http://www.thedailycamera.com/news/talbott/2002/0416lclin.html


And OhMandy, while a judge may order someone to attend AA meetings, they cannot force them to, or punish them if they don't, if that person expresses to the judge a disagreement with the religion-based philosophy of that program. This has, rightly or wrongly, a basis in our constitutional separation of church and state. It also applies to state-supported institutions.

And if a women's basketball player has never been arrested at your favorite college, it only means that it hasn't happened yet, not that it won't occur. This is the same problem facing those who try to educate people to take action for their safety in the event of a tornado. Since it hasn't happened to most people, they don't think it will. In the end some of those who don't heed the advice pay dearly for their actions or lack thereof.

[OhMandy]

YCN There are other forms of alcohol rehab/treatment or whatever you want to call it other than AA. I just mentioned AA because it's the most well known. But whatever treatment the judge orders, you can't deny she needs some help. Even if it's just to realize that drinking and driving never ever mix.

I never said my favorite school is perfect. If you read my posts I do say we're dealing with 17-23 year olds and they do drink. They are going to make mistakes. The real question is how they learn from those mistakes.

[YCN]

I didn't make my post completely clear, OhMandy.

I was referring to kate dawg's post regarding schools that haven't had any players arrested for drunk driving. Sorry.


[This message has been edited by YCN (edited 04-28-2002).]

[swok34]

perhaps, it is a bit too early to say that she has a drinking problem......?with only 1 DUI........I suspect a great deal of college athletes drink.....do they get caught? How would we ever know?.....and how many male *star* athletes get let off the hook by calling the coach rather than hauling them in? I would suspect the numbers are high in regards to football players.



[This message has been edited by swok34 (edited 04-28-2002).]

[kate dawg]

YCN, good article you found....but my main point remains.

I think people are attracted to and follow women's college basketball not just because they've got game. I think for the hard core fans with children it's because the women are excellent role models too. That's why I found it disturbing and unsettling...and disappointing. Sure, they are college kids and college kids tend to imbibe the booze. But I look at how, for example, the ISU players are looked at in Ames, or the Tech players in Lubbock, and I think we all agree they are looked upon as role models too...and are held to a higher standard, as all student-athletes should be because of the influence they have and the fact that they represent their schools.

I'm not naive. I'm telling you that UNIVERSITY OF COLORADO women's basketball players, at least in the last 15 years I've followed the team, have NOT been busted for doing anything even remotely similar to this.

Boulder High is not CU, so don't toss your blanket of judgement of the City of Boulder or even the CU student body or Boulder community on CU women's basketball players just for argument's sake. And I haven't heard much of it happening elsewhere either. So maybe the Buffs are doing it and not getting caught. But I seriously doubt it. As for other places where I'm not as educated on the types of people they recruit, I can't comment 'cause I don't know.

You show me numbers on women's cbb players getting arrested and I'll be happy to recant, but for now, I'll stick to my guns and say that this sort of behavior, for a women's Division I major college basketball player, is an anomaly. It might happen, but until someone shows me some kind of stats to prove my naivete incorrect, I'll stay in la la land. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/wink.gif

[OhMandy]

KD even college football players are good role models. You can't judge 1000's of college players by a small percentage of scum.

While I agree that somebody who gets caught from a DUI the first time doesn't mean that person has a drinking problem, it is something that should be watched and she deserves to be punished. It will be interesting to watch what Neb does in this case. I hope they really stick to their guns. Unlike the Indiana coach who wouldn't suspend one of her players who was caught stealing money from her summer job.

[ChipperF1]

"You can't judge 1000's of college players by a small percentage of scum."

Well Mandy, you did judge Nebraska and Miami and a few on the actions of a few. So you are truly as my grandfather said, "speaking with forked tongue."

Thanks for relaying that story YCN. That disgraceful, dire and insane. That sad thing is that seems to be happening more than we ever realize. It's sick that things like that bullying episode are going on.

However (being sarcastic) "lets not be naive" http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/wink.gif

You see episode like that story and episode like Katie Robinette's all-american screw up and all that drinking to excess that seems to go on on a college campus relates back to two things that our candypants, liberal, passive-permissive society has allowed.

We've lost a sense of fear and a sense of shame.

The bullying episode? That little miscreant felt she had nothing to fear. No one stood up, she had a bunch of syncopants around her, and in her mind she had nothing to fear.

I hear about those "new" issue of bullying in schools, and i'm not surprised, for its nothing new. I am surprised in all hand-wringing about the issue when really it is simple.
A bully acts on fear. Empower kids to give that person something to fear.

When a group of kids come together and have the support by us adult to stand, that what is needed. Where was the school in this situation? Where were that girl's teammates?

And the mere fact that the little savage was an athlete really upset me when I read that story. I expect more of an athlete. That's another thing I was taught growing up in sports.

Now about the sense of shame. I hope Katie Robinette feels a sense of shame. I hope any kid who made such a ridiculous choice feels a sense of shame. I'm sure any kid in college who was praying to the porcelain god the next morning felt a sense of shame.

"let's not be naive" is the antithesis of the sense of decency and shame. "Everybody's doing it" seems to be the lingua franca. That thinking has to be replaced with a better model.

"Sure, they are college kids and college kids tend to imbibe the booze. But I look at how, for example, the ISU players are looked at in Ames, or the Tech players in Lubbock, and I think we all agree they are looked upon as role models too...and are held to a higher standard."

I'm with Kate Dawg 100% here. Every Husker game there were a ton of little girl with #21 jersey on their back and stars in their eyes. I wonder what they are thinking now?

It bothered me ever more because Katie wears that scarlet and cream uniform with a "21" on it. To me, that is an honor. It is a special priviledge to have that chance to compete. No matter what school you represent, when you are selected to be on a team, it is a very sacred trust. Anything you do to dishonor that trust should leave you ashamed.

It is thing the two best coaches I ever had instilled in me. To me, because you are an athlete, more is expected. My father always said that he expected me in all facets of life to aim hire because I choose to wear the title of athlete. (I by that, I mean the true definition, the way the ancient Greeks used the term).

My high school track coach put it more bluntly. "I expect you men to be best scholars you can be. The best runners you can be, and best people you can be. I expect more from you that any other people in this school, because you have taken this responsibity to be on this team. This isn't just a team or a sport, this is a way of life."

As far as a punishment goes? I can see Katie not playing for a while, maybe even all of next year. But I hope to see that she is not isolated from the team. She's still a part of the squad, and no matter what she done, I still like the kid and many fans do, too. But it is disappointing. The Katie I know is a good kid. She made the biggest screw-up in her life and she'll pay for it. Perhaps she won't subscribe to "permissive" thinking in the future.

[kate dawg]

Just when I thought I was in the clear...this genius goes and proves me wrong again. I mean they're popping up all over the place!http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/colleges/tcu/stories/042602dnspotcuarrest.1a827.ht ml (http://www.dallasnews.com/sports/colleges/tcu/stories/042602dnspotcuarrest.1a827.html)

[This message has been edited by kate dawg (edited 04-29-2002).]

[OhMandy]

When 5-10 players a year from the same school such as Neb and Miami get into trouble with the law then both schools deserve any bad press and jokes about them.

What does somebody say to a Neb football player in a suit? Will the defendant please raise.

[HuskerFan86]

Hey guys,
Two things...
First of all, I find it pretty humorus that a Colorado fan would have the nerve to make jokes about the character of Nebraska football players when just last fall, the CU football program also came under fire. Wasn't it just last year that a number of Buffalo football players were accused of gang raping that woman? And not to mention the character (or lack thereof) of the CU football fans. Man, when you go to Boulder you better cover your Nebraska license plate because if you dont, you will be treated terribly. Just a couple of years ago, my family and I returned from the game in Boulder only to find our side mirrors broken off and our tires slashed. I'm not knocking all CU fans, because I know for the most part they are great people, but if its fair for you to make a generalizaton based on a few Husker football players, then I guess I can do the same based on a few fans.

The second thing I find very troubling is this: Some of you may know that Katie Robinette has yiounger twin sisters who are now starring on the S. Sioux City basketball team. Ashley and Amy Robinette were both sophmores this past winter, and both had very promising futures with the team. But about halfway through December, word came out that Amy, a 6'0" guard/forward had quit the team. I was very shocked because she was making huge strides and had secured a starting position on the team. Why would she quit? Well, come to find out that she had/has a very serious drinking problem, and the SSC coach gave her the choice to either get her act together or quit. A few days later she was caught drinking and the coach threw her off the team. Interesting that Katie is not the only Robinette girl with a possible alcohol problem.


I'm praying for you Katie, you have unbelievable potential but you have to focus and be 100% committed to succeed in a league as strong as the Big 12.

[swok34]

That's really sad to hear about the sister, huskerfan....and welcome to hoopscoop...now, rethinking my...one DUI does not make a problem statement.

I hope each and every one of them gets help....I grew up in an alcoholic household and this certainly is beginning to sound like "overachieving/escaping" young girls looking for solutions in all the wrong places........I certainly hope it's not the case.

[ChipperF1]

Welcome to the club, Huskerfan, always good to see people from the homeworld.

So that's the deal with Amy. Sad and again, shocking. That girl chose the bottle over a championship. Absolutely sad.

Oh by the way...it was in the World Herald this morning, another player is jumping off the U.S.S. Enron before it sinks.

Now its K.C. Cowgill...Or should we call her C.J., Part Deux?

http://www.omaha.com/index.php?u_np=0&u_pg=38&u_sid=379879

[metromaniac]

Sounds like maybe there exists a family history we are all unaware. Hopefully these ladies and their family will seek the appropriate assistance and counseling. My best to these ladies for the strength to confront issues and actions necessary.

While we are talking about Nebraska football players, Cedric Benson, the all world freshman from Longhorn land was arrested in his hometown of Midland for possession of marijuana under 2 oz., drug paraphenalia, and intoxication at two a.m. in the apartment of a lady friend, also arrested. Will be interesting to see the approach of Mack Brown and UT. The article implied, although he played football, his education was being paid for by a professional baseball team he had also signed with, therefore, "may" not be subject to the normal rules. Also, that he was due to go to California to play minor league baseball as soon as school is out. Sounds like the last place he needs to be spending his summer, huh.

[carolann]

Football Dirt - Folks, this board has stayed reasonably friendly for several years. I've always thought there were certain unspoken rules. Except for an occassional 'congratulations' to a school whose team has won a championship, we have kept football talk off this board. Most people surely know that the Big 12 football rivalries are down and dirty. If you don't know, check out a few football boards. Name calling and generalized slurs against other schools is considered part of the fun. I don't appreciate people bringing that football garbage over here. I don't appreciate generalized jabs at other schools and entire states. That said, I have nothing to say on this board about Cedric Benson.

Be careful about thinking 'it can't happen at my school'. Even with respect to women's basketball, I do not have to think hard to think of a number of 'incidents' over the past couple of years. There was a player arrested for shoplifting at the student bookstore at one school, a player arrested for marijuana at another, a player charged with assault in a 'domestic dispute' at yet another. These events happened at good programs, some of who like to talk a lot about a 'family atmosphere'. A lot of schools will try to give the girl a chance to turn things around. To often, the girl slips again and has to go elsewhere to try again if she wants. BTW, these events have always happened. Women's basketball simply wasn't covered in the news and on the internet much until recently.

[kate dawg]

Amen Carolann. Let's ditch the football talk...we all have fb athletes at our favorite schools that have embarrassed their respective programs...this is a women's basketball discussion board.

[OhMandy]

Benson signed with the Dodgers out of high school but the Dodgers do not have any minor league teams in CA. The closest one they have is Vegas and he won't go there since it's AAA. But he should take care of his own problems before coming to CA.

[HuskerFan86]

Wow, are we even gonna have a team next year? Our next recruiting class is going to be huge, and it will also tell a lot about where the NU program is going in the next few years. Although there are some very good prospects in Nebraska for 2003 (Montgomery and Flynn), Sanderford will likely have to go to the JC ranks to fill the roster.

It is sad to see KC and Steph go, but I could kinda see they weren't happy toward the end of the season (who was?) and maybe they both needed a change. Cowgill was another example of a promising player who got injured and never realy improved. Her lack of quickness and athleticism was really exposed by the high level of talent in the Big 12 this year, and she seemed to lose her shooting touch this season...41-117 or 35% f(rom three) is not a great number for a three point shooting specialist. Good luck to KC and Steph, but I think our program needs it more than they do!!

[ChipperF1]

It's Okay HuskerFan. We just have to sit through one more year of quitting, cowardice and Sanderford. Then we welcome the new coach and start all over.

As for Montgomery and Flynn? Montgomery? Maybe. But she's more of a Mountain West-Missouri Valley prospect at this point

Flynn? If she continues to improve, she will aim much higher than Team Enron.

[HuskerFan86]

I agree. Flynn needs to hit the weights, but she has a great feel for the game. She is by far the best pure shooter in the state, and coaches daughters are always helpful. She will be an excellent D1 player.

Looking ahead farther than that, NU has already offered a scholarship to Omaha Central sophmore guard Crystal Howard and she is an unbelievable athlete. Talk about upside and potential. Then again, in light of the recent failure of many Nebraska-born players at NU, are any of these girls gonna want to play for a Sanderford coached team?

[mred]

Originally posted by ChipperF1:
As for Montgomery and Flynn? Montgomery? Maybe. But she's more of a Mountain West-Missouri Valley prospect at this point

Flynn? If she continues to improve, she will aim much higher than Team Enron.

ISU is recruiting both. Montgomery's brother is an ISU football player, so ISU would be a frontrunner if they offer.

[ChipperF1]

"in light of the recent failure of many Nebraska-born players at NU, are any of these girls gonna want to play for a Sanderford coached team?"

That's assuming Sanderford's going to be there in the future. I don't think he is. After another 14-16 or worst effort next year, General Westmorelanderford will be out.

As for Jenni Flynn, if she continues to develop the way I thinks he can, the only way she'll go to Nebraska is if her daddy becomes the next Nebraska Head Coach. And that possibility isn't as farfetched as it sounds. Kelly Flynn's done everything you can want at the High School level. The man has built the best girls hs basketball in the State by a wide margin, and one of the 30-40 best hs team in the country. There's a lot of varied opinion on Flynn from Omaha to Sidney and all points in between, but lets face it, the man get results and if his resume crosses Bill Byrne's desk, the AD would be wise to at least read it.

Remember, a coach who jumped from high school to Oklahoma ended up in this year's Championship game.

Katie Montgomery? If she ends up at Iowa State, its a perfect fit. She is Bill's kind of player. Not the flashiest, but can fill some needs for you. Katie can be a very solid role player in the major college ranks.

Crystal Howard? An awesome athlete. This girl has Maurtice Ivy-style potential, but she has a lot of work to do before we could talk about Division I offers. In my mind anybody offering a scholarship sophomore year is living in fantasyland. Howard is good, but she's not that good. Not yet.


[This message has been edited by ChipperF1 (edited 04-30-2002).]

[YCN]

Chipper, who in the heck is Maurtice Ivy?

I hope you aren't comparing women's basketball to men's...

That doesn't seem very equitable to me.

If Maurtice is a women's basketball player, my apologies.

[ChipperF1]

YCN,

Maurtice Ivy is most definitely a womens basketball player.

1988 Big-8 Player of the Year at Nebraska.

Crystal Howard goes to Ivy's old high school.

[YCN]

Chipper, as I'm sure you can tell, it is only in the last couple of years that I have truly become excited about women's basketball.

I can never hold a candle to those who have been believers all along.

Once again, my apologies.