Sooners - my thoughts

[Amanda]

I have seen OU play 4 times this year. I think their top four players can play with just about anybody. Hill, Dales, Caufield and Ross are tough.

If I was the coach, I believe I would start those four and Jackson. Run a 4 guard offense, and let Dales or even Caufield defend in the paint against the other team's 4. They already bring Hill out to the wing all the time anyway - running a 4 out or 5 out wouldn't make much difference. But it would let them put their best 5 players on the court...

I think Luce can be a capable back-up at the point if given some playing time. Shoush looks like she will be able to contribute, too. OU struggles converting point blank shots, though. I have seen Dales make passes to wide open players and it go through their hands, or them miss the shot. The thing is, Dales keeps making the right passes, even though you can tell she really doesn't want to. Love watching her play.

Still, if I had to take one player from OU, I'd take Hill. She can do some things. Total hoss.

I am looking forward to seeing them play UCONN. I have only seen them play inferior teams, and I hope OU plays up to the competition...

[schooner2]

Interesting replacing Talbert with Jackson. At first my thought was that OU would lose to many rebounds in the Talbert for Jackson trade-off. However, Talbert is averaging about 6 per game while Jackson is averaging 4. Then consider Jackson is averaging 3x as many assists, 2x as many steals, and fewer turnovers, and, well, who knows. Still that would leave OU with very little ability to actually get a hand up in the face of an opponent down low.

[Amanda]

Looked for you Saturday, I was at the game. Came to visit my new Sooner friends. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif Met coach Coale during the men's game.

How much do you think would really be lost with Dales or Caufield defending the post instead of Talbert? Don't you think the offensive output would outweigh any problems on defense? Hill would defend their best post player, Dales or Caufield could guard the other. That group could press the dog out of people, too.

I don't know - I am just throwing out ideas based on what I have observed. I keep meaning to see if the group I mentioned ever plays together, but I don't think they do. I just want to see them together for a good 6 minute stretch and see how they look. On Saturday, OU played about 12 really good minutes of basketball. It was fun to watch. Of course MSU sucked, but all you can do is play whoever is on the schedule, ya know? When OU is on a roll, they can do some damage. Again, can't wait until UCONN. Hope OU shows up and gives the Huskies a good game. Lord knows I would like to see the discussion on the WBBALL list (or whatever you want to call it) if OU plays UCONN close. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

[schooner2]

Down and out with Strep over the weekend. Finally feeling better.

Saw UCONN play today. Unless the rest of the Sooners show up to play like Caufield did against Montana State, OU has no chance against the Huskies. Women's basketball is still kind of funny. Sure it's increasing in parity but only from #3 downward. UCONN and Tennessee still rule the roost consistently. Only occasionally does it seem a team can pop up and challenge them. UCONN annihilated La Tech today. Almost hope Coach Coale had the team over to watch that game and ask them if they feel they are really ready to face such a team.

We would need:
Ross's game against Purdue
Hill's game against Butler
Dales's game against TCU
Talbert's game against SMU
Caufield's game against Montana State
Jacksons's game against Wichita State or North Texas

Then, I think OU would have a decent chance at giving UCONN a very good game.

[swok34]

I agree that OU has to have all five + 1 players start at the top of their game. Not sure they can get away with having 2/3 pick up the slack for all as they've been able to in earlier games.........

They absolutely have to limit turnovers and they have to contain Diane Taurasi.....I've seen time and time again OU leave a perimeter player open and Taurasi will kill 'em....also think Sue Bird also has that capability.

I heard on Sheri Coale's radio show that when they have played Caufield in the post (typically near the end of a game)....a game went from a 5 point lead to up around 20......Coale also mentioned she had many "tricks" up her sleeves that no one has seen.

I think OU plays a whole lot like Connecticut with trapping defenses and fastbreaking offenses off steals.....I can't wait.
I believe OU won't have a "problem" with Illinois and I'm glad they have the game a week prior to Connecticut. Don't think Connecticut has a game until the 22nd.....but Illinois will be a good game for them and they will have to play well to beat them.

I still like the Caton Hill of LAST year.....though I know they've moved her out of position....her rebounding numbers have suffered. 2 fouls in the first half and she sits....so there's more concern about the foul situation for both her and Talbert.
I watched Caton Hill try to steal the ball in the 2nd half against SMU and drew a foul.....Coach Coale yells, "Caton, don't do that!"........

I don't know that I have seen Hill and Talbert both off the floor at the same time, if I have, I've not paid attention to it....typically either Selmon (withholding comments, it's Xmas time ya know) or Stephanie Simon are in......

[Jennifer]

Against Uconn, I really think OU's backcourt will be OK vs. Bird and Taurasi. It's the inside play and containing Jones, Cash, and Williams that worry me. THey are all so quick and athletic.
OU will have to stay out of foul trouble and definitely keep the TO's down. I think they will be up for this game; I just hope they come out hitting on all cylinders, unlike La Tech yesterday.

Who will the match-ups be? Caufield on Bird, Ross on Taurasi, and Dales on one of the forwards? Or Dales on Taurasi, Ross on Bird, and Caufield vs. a bigger forward?
Taurasi is a fun player to watch. I just hope that's not the case on Dec 22!

[swok34]

I think the guard duo of Dales, Caufield and Ross will rotate on both Taurasi and Bird.....Di Jackson may also get a shot in that rotation as well....Coach Coales really good about rotating the guards to give the opposing team a different look.

You know, I'll be very happy if we stay on the court with UConn and stay within 5 points.

You can't say they have a height advantage though....but their frontcourt is very athletic.....Svet Abrosimova is student assistant coach?, I didn't know that....
http://www.uconnhuskies.com/sports/WBasketball/2002/Roster/roster2001-2002.html


[This message has been edited by swok34 (edited 12-10-2001).]

[metromaniac]

Amanda---You may have a good point, although I still think at least one post needs to be around the basket---so 4 out not 5---

With the injury to Jen and Wadsworth, OU is truly a bit weak in the post. However---OU has consistently, under Coach Coale relied far more on guard play than low post power. Maybe necessity more than long term plan. We are missing the minutes of Desiree Taylor.

I too think Luce could be utilized for back up point and Jackson could then be left without that responsibility. That could open Jackson up for more defense and slashing- aka Caulfield-- than having the responsibility to ensure the offense is functioning correctly. However, I do like the idea of starting Jackson. This could open the door for Ross to come off the bench and light it up in a true sixth man(woman) role. I truly think that is her forte. She has ice water in her veins and shoots lights out in those situations. Limiting her minutes some would help make sure she is around when we need her later in the season. Seems she is dinging her knee and having to leave games more this year with the increased minutes.

Neish has truly been on a mission after her summer experience. Due to the post injuries, Stacey is floating around playing 4 or even 5 due to her flexibility and talent, yet this limits her offensive chances some.

Caton I believe will be fine---she seems to be struggling a bit with the pressure of keeping her fouls down. Over the last couple of years, she always seems to step up when the big games are on the line.

Coale always seems to figure stuff out and get her teams on a roll when the lights are bright. I am sure she will again this year too. OU's core people are as good as anybody's. They will need the bench to keep from the year end fatigue issues again.


Go http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/ou.gif

[swok34]

The only problem with "action" jackson slashing aka Caufield is that she's not one for shooting the basketball or at least, hasn't been thus far. She has been looking to shoot more the last few games; I think Jackson is about as pure of a point guard as they come.

[Amanda]

I am not suggesting putting Jackson in for Ross. I am suggesting playing a 4 guard offense with Hill being the only player roaming the paint. It would give her more space to work and it would get OU's top 5 players on the court at the same time. It is harder to guard a post player when the rest of the offense is spread out and you can't get any help from the offside post defender. Hill would dice up the defense if any of the wings dropped down on her, and she should be able to score on 95% of the 5 players in the country if she has them one on one. It works equally well against a zone because spreading out the zone to cover four outside players would allow of a lot of cutting to the hoop.

There is an obvious reason for doing what I am suggesting, but I can't really say it without saying something less than flattering about other players. So I shall just leave it up to you guys to figure out my logic. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

As I said - I think Luce can some in to give Jackson a break. Luce looks like all she needs is some playing time and she could give OU a good 15 minutes a game. Shoush also looks like she could give the 2-3 players a break for a few minutes at a time. Caton Hill needs to stop fouling and play 40 minutes a game. Then OU would be in good shape. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

Seriously - the thing about running a 4 guard offense is while you may get mismatches when you are on defense, you also get mismatches when you have the ball. Who wouldn't like to see a 4 player try to guard Dales, Caufield or Ross? I think any problems OU would have while on defense would be more than made up for with the offensive fire power they would be able to have out there.

Again, I am just throwing this out there for discussion.

[swok34]

We worked on spacing and timing -- the two constants of good offense and of most good things in life, come to think of it. And we blocked out. When your tallest player is 6-foot-1, blocking out is a whole lot more important than rebounding

Here's an interesting quote out of Sheri Coale's latest diary.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/basketball/college/women/news/2001/12/10/coale_three/

[schooner2]

By far my favorite couple of sentences in the latest diary entry:

"After two weeks of 70-degree temperatures, suddenly, on Nov. 27, it snowed. That's right. A 40-degree temperature drop, and snow. And it snowed and it snowed and it snowed. By the time it was finished, we had nine inches. That's not so much if you live in Boulder or Lincoln, or -- God forbid -- Storrs, but in Norman, Okla., that's a winter storm. I swear Old Man Winter must be an Aggie."

I love that poke-in-the-ribs to UCONN not to mention OSU.

[schooner2]

Amanda,

What's your thought on the UCONN - OU matchup with regards to OU's defense? A lot of talk on the wbball list about the necessity of mixing in some zone halfcourt defense to contain outside shooting. UCONN put on quite a display of 3-point bombing against La Tech.

OU still primarily plays man to man. But have seen them mixing in quite a bit of zone this year. Especially extended zone defense that could lead to halfcourt trapping type of defense.

[Amanda]

I think that against good teams, you stick with your best defense. In high school, or against lesser teams, switching defenses around may work. But against good teams, you want to put your best defense on the court. If you throw a zone out there when you spend very little time working on zone, you are going to get screwed. Same thing if you normally play zone, switching to man defense could really mess your team up.

I know people think - what's the big deal with using several different defenses? Ask yourself this - if your team is a half court offense team, and you are playing against a run and gun fast break team, do you help yourself by trying to play a run and gun offense as well? Or do you stick with your strengths? I say you stick with what you do well.

There are a lot of different rotations and responsibilities with man and zone defense. If you aren't comfortable with the rotations and your responsibilities in each, your team is going to suffer. A good offensive team is going to exploit weaknesses in either type of defense. If you run man, you can always pack it in the lane and slack off your man and leave them open, while still staying in the same type of defense. Same thing with zone - you can put some serious pressure on people with a zone defense. OU does that - they run a 1-3-1 zone and a half court trap that can be as tough as any man defense out there.

So to answer your question - a lot of people on that list don't know what the hell they are talking about IMO. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif Besides, generally speaking, you play a zone when you are trying to contain the interior people for the most part and give up the outside shot, while you play man to limit perimeter people. So if somebody said zone should be used to contain the 3pt shooters...well...that would just be wrong.

[mred]

Originally posted by Amanda:
So if somebody said zone should be used to contain the 3pt shooters...well...that would just be wrong.

That's an understatement. ISU plays zone almost exclusively, using a box-and-one only when worried about one outside shooter more than the rest. ISU's opponents have made over 8 threes per game. ISU's zone has always tried to keep the ball outside and force low-percentage shots, which is what zones are usually meant to do.

[KSUron]

It might be kind of fun to see how an OU four guard offense would work against KSU. Wecker and Mahoney at the 4 & 3 are quite athletic and quick for players their size. (5-11 & 6.0) Ohlde at the 5 is also athletic so it could get interesting. As always any exotic offense or defense is subject to counter moves by the opponent. Some counter moves will work, some won't. I don't think Deb Patterson would want to go to four guard to match up. I think she would give the usual suspects the job and stay with her active zone. Like I said, I'd love to watch it done. Btw, I know my place as a fan of an "upstart". I am not predicting a KSU win in any case, but I expect KSU will not concede without a fight either.

[KSUron]

BTW I think it might be fun to hear opinions from others on what you think other teams may do to counter OU playing 4 guards and a post.

[Bark]

Hey Swok, not sure playing 4 guards + a 5 is a good idea against Uconn. Uconn's post players may score and rebound at will. It might work if you use it to drive the lane and get UConn in foul trouble. UConn's bench is not proven. But if you do I think OK needs to shoot a high percentage, play uptempo, and plan to score nearly 90+ points.

[swok34]

I agree, Bark.....and if you note my responses, I like the starting lineup just fine like it is http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

Though Jamie Talbert is not as athletic as the rest of the bunch nor as confident......she has really been playing well. Last year, she only improved after replacing Jennifer Cunningham in the starting lineup. Mostly she needs some confidence building because she certainly has the skills.

[Bark]

Hoping for a good game 12/22. And for the Big 12 vs Tenn. & Vanderbilt.

ps: It's astounding that you all can co-exist on the same board. Have you seen the "dissing" on both the Summitt and Boneyard? ... easterners you know.

[ChipperF1]

One thing I think Oklahoma must do is NOT play the percentages. Get a good case of cerebral ballsiness, because they'll need it.

I agree with some switching from zone pressure to man pressure. The key word here is PRESSURE. Do not concede an inch of the floor to UConn. Much of what makes Connecticut so difficult to play is getting over the aura. UConn does to teams what the Wehrmacht did to Poland, and add the fact that the game is in Gampel Pavillion? What you have a "Day After"-style nuclear blowout potential.
The Sooners need to get in UConn's face quickly. First series on defense, go to man pressure, everybody guards close and gets in people shirts. Take some shots at some steals go for some blocks early on. When Sue Bird drives, Dales has to give her a little chickenwing. I think Dales can muscle Bird and perhaps intimdate her a little.
Diana Taurasi can be Oklahoma's worst nightmare, or a Sooner's best friend. The last time Diana was in a close game, she fired up enough bricks to build St. Louis a new convention motel. Whoever's on Taurasi, stay on her tight and more importantly, get in her head. Talk to her a little. Remind her of that night against Notre Dame. Taurasi at times can go into a total systems faliure if her shot is off. Oklahoma needs the All-American in a funk as much as possible.

As far as the interior goes, this is were the biggest risk is, and the greatest rewards, too. If the Sooner gamble in the passing lanes and roll some sevens, that can cause some transition, gets the Sooners some easy buckets, and quiet that crowd. OU has a lot of quickness, exploit it.

Offensively. UConn's going throw different looks at Oklahoma. Zone looks, man looks, trapping. UConn first unit will try to attack the Sooner offense and force transition opportunities early, especially if it looks like Oklahoma will try to play the percentages.
I think Oklahoma needs to penetrate. Take the challenge to UConn. Force those kid to either foul or sign nonaggression pacts. This is where Ross and Caulfield factor in. Swin Cash is a toughie, an All-American, but Jones and Williams at times shy away from contact, challenge them inside, and use the options it can open up. Taking some chances with penetration at the very least can lead to open looks at the perimeter. If Oklahoma can find a scoring solution inside and outside, they can get 90+ it could take to win this game.

Now many will say that this plan flies in the face of Conventional Wisdom. It would agree with that, except I don't see this game in "Conventional" terms.
Oklahoma has good talent, they are well-coached and they have the ability, at least in their front
UConn is solid, even if they aren't as deep as some would think, and they are at home. "Conventional Wisdom" will lead to OU playing a nice cat-and-mouse game and lose by 15 points.
If Oklahoma plays an attacking 40-minute game (Which means their starters have to get good sleep the night before because they'll be needed for maximum minutes.), and forces UConn to play that type of game, the Sooners can find themselves winning it.
UConn is the playground bully. For OU to beat them, they'll have to stand up, not crawl through.

[Bark]

Chipper, your post "don't play percentages" appears to be a solid approach to the OK/UConn game. I would probably do the same. Two things though: 1. Williams & Jones will bang with the best and 2. If UConn goes on a run, OK can not get discouraged, weather the storm, sometimes it passes.

Still a Uconn fan, but hoping for a real competitive game, and if we lose, losing to OK is far better than to TN.

[metromaniac]

Chipper ---

Again your insight and knowledge floats to the forefront of the postings. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/ou.gif still needs to be sure to beat Illinois this Sunday. When they do,the Chipperism's need to be remembered. The key will be the leaders of the team being ultra-agressive and not back down. Caulfield, Hill and Ross are there, I think. The true key to the game may just be Stacey Dales. If she gets hammered and no foul is called early in Hartford, she MUST NOT go down, then whine to the ref's. IMO this happens too much. As long as she rises, proud and sure of her All-American status, and keeps mentally in her game, the Sooners will be OK.

I totally agree that the percentages will not favor or fall in Oklahoma's favor. They must "take it to "em" for 40 minutes. NO PRISONERS shall be the motto. In fact, the key is not offense but intense and constant pressure by the D. If we should know anything, D wins the big games more than a smooth and slick offensive show. Another great point is http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/ou.gif must attack the basket as often as possible. This means all the guards in the game. Do not get trapped into doing what they want. Keep taking it to 'em.

Taurasi will, in my opinion, be prime to falter---the real issue is Sue Bird and her big game achievements. Does OU start off with Dales on her-- or Ross, Caulfield or even maybe Jackson? Interesting thoughts. Any opinions from the Big 12 experts?

Go http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/ou.gif beat the fighting Illini, then get on your war paint for Hartford!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bark]

Chipper,

One other thing to keep in mind. Taurasi hasn't "gone in the tank" this year. Although, we haven't had many big games. Think lots has to do with her being looser/knowing that the four seniors will score and that she doesn't have to replace Svet's and Shea's scoring when they both went down last year.

Versus La Tech, she missed her first three 3's, but then made 6 of 8 from there.

Still think UConn will win. The difference will be in the paint.

[swok34]

I think Rosalind Ross is the best on-ball defender OU has....of course, that's a toss-up between her and Dionnah....I actually think Dionnah beats out Ross.....

This is going to be touted as the "Stacey Dales vs Sue Bird" show though given that they are both point guards that could go 1 - 2 in the WNBA draft......

[Bark]

Yeah, I figure Dales on Taurasi and Ross/Jackson on Bird.

[Bark]

But then that's where the real problem comes in. Who's on Cash? Hill? (probably). Then Williams and Jones may go wild.