OT Sort of: Officiating & Home

[Bball Girl]

Very interesting article in the ABQ Journal this morning. While every arena including the USA have those fans who boo everything single call against their team, the Pit exceeds everything I've been around. It's why I can't bring myself to attend many games...and I've always thought that plenty of the fans do it NOT because they disagree with the call but because they are trying to intimidate the officials. So..this article.



Lobo Men's Basketball: No Need to Criticize Referees on This Call - the ABQ Journal is subsciption based so here's the text rather than the linke.


By Mark Smith
Journal Staff Writer
When it comes to blown calls, this was a doozy.
Whistle-swallowing has long been commonplace in the Pit. The crowd goes bonkers, officials get intimidated and suddenly a charge becomes a block, a hack on the wrist is overlooked and a traveling gets ignored in favor of the home team.
As bad calls go, however, Saturday night's was legendary. Not by the refs, mind you. No, this was blown by fans, a radio play-by-play announcer, a reporter and even New Mexico coach Ritchie McKay— who ripped his coat off to protest a no-call that was exactly correct.
"I don't claim to be an expert on rules by any means, but that was pretty basic," said KKOB-AM radio's Bob Clark, host of the Lobos' postgame show. "That was one of the most embarrassing displays of ignorance ever in the Pit."
And it continued after the game, Clark saying he fielded a number of calls from fans griping about how officials "blew an obvious backcourt violation" by Air Force during the Lobos' 62-59 victory against the Falcons.
"I kept having to explain it, but how simple can it be?" Clark said.
Pretty simple, actually. Once a ball hits the rim, it is a free ball. There cannot be a backcourt violation when no team has possession.
The play in question started with the Lobos leading 56-54 and Air Force's Jacob Burtschi launching a 3-pointer with 1:29 remaining. The shot missed, and resulted in a long rebound. The ball touched a pair of Air Force players, but was never controlled by anyone and bounced into the backcourt. The Falcons' Dan Nwaelele hesitated, then snatched it. Play continued while rules-challenged fans, KKOB play-by-play man Mike Roberts and McKay went berserk.
McKay ripped off his coat and began a tirade against the officials that continued through a timeout with 1:14 remaining.
One reporter even asked McKay after the game "what was the explanation about why they didn't call a backcourt violation?"
McKay said, "they said because the ball hit the rim, it's no possession. Therefore, if that's the rule, that's the right call."
If that's the rule? Pretty much has been since peach baskets were first used as hoops.

[MsProudSooner]

This is a great example of the fact fans can be passionate about their team without being familiar with the rules of the game. You can find numerous other examples of this same fact by reading the Lloyd Noble Center forum on OU Insider any day of the week! :rolleyes:

[labcoatguy]

I usually like it when Mike Roberts, long-long-long-time play-by-play announcer for KOB, starts calling out refs by names to indicate disagreement with a call, but have you noticed him doing that a lot more recently in his old age? It sort of loses its effect. I don't know, maybe its just been the particular games I've listened to, but Mike Roberts seems to be getting cranky.

OU's women's announcers Brian Brinkley and Tera DeGiusti (sp?) frequently rant about bad calls and perceived bad calls. Occasionally though they will admit to seeing a bad call that favored OU. Still though, I think far too much time is spent on saying things like "Erin Grant took an extra step, but no call on that one...", probably second only to the time spent poorly reading advertisements for places like Above and Beyond Travel.

[Bball Girl]

I usually like it when Mike Roberts, long-long-long-time play-by-play announcer for KOB, starts calling out refs by names to indicate disagreement with a call, but have you noticed him doing that a lot more recently in his old age? It sort of loses its effect. I don't know, maybe its just been the particular games I've listened to, but Mike Roberts seems to be getting cranky.

OU's women's announcers Brian Brinkley and Tera DeGiusti (sp?) frequently rant about bad calls and perceived bad calls. Occasionally though they will admit to seeing a bad call that favored OU. Still though, I think far too much time is spent on saying things like "Erin Grant took an extra step, but no call on that one...", probably second only to the time spent poorly reading advertisements for places like Above and Beyond Travel.

Yeah...this is my 2nd season to listen to Lobo games consistenly and you're right, Mike's getting more testy or something..he does it with the women too.

Call me a homer, but Ryan Hyatt does a pretty good job for a homer. He'll say..the crowd wanted a foul or a travel or something, but that that was just good position or he'll say Davis got away with a foul or a travel. He'll certainly call out the officials when he thinks they are wrong, but it's done with humor. Many times in the USA with the crowd going ballistic, Ryan would be saying in my ear...nope that's a clear foul. .

[Bob_Ballew]

I am trying to hold my tongue when it comes to officiating this season. Melissa Brown who worked the Baylor OU game needs to learn when not to blow her whistle. She really fouled up a few calls against BU and OU the other night. She would be standing at mid court and make an out-of-position call when another official is directly in front of the action under the basket. I always thought there was some protocol when it came to policing an area. She did this to both Baylor and Oklahoma. She called traveling on Sophia when she made a perfect step-through move to the basket. KMR called a time out and demonstrated the move for her. I thought that was funny. I would hate for her to team up with Yardbird or Marriane. :)

[swok34]

My issues with officiating:

I can't do a damn thing about it!!

No need to rile up the good folks here at Hoopscoop about it, I'm pretty sure none of you are officials. Though maybe you are as I didn't know I was a queen anything until today :eek:

Oh, I have my fun at the game on occasion. I got really pissed off up in Stillwater at 'ol Lorenzo after he let one of the Oral Roberts girls almost take Leah's head off with an elbow. If that wasn't an intentional foul, I don't know what was. And I let him know every time elbow girl came into the game so he could pay attention.

I do get irritated when the official on the other side of the court decides to make the call rather than the one standing right on top of the play.

On more than once occasion I've found myself listening to the OU fans around me boo and wish they'd go home and spend the night reading the rule book.

[giraffespots]

Very interesting article in the ABQ Journal this morning. While every arena including the USA have those fans who boo everything single call against their team, the Pit exceeds everything I've been around. It's why I can't bring myself to attend many games...and I've always thought that plenty of the fans do it NOT because they disagree with the call but because they are trying to intimidate the officials.

That's one of the best parts of going to games at the Pit. When OU came, I went to both games. At the WNIT, my whole family went decked out in our OU stuff. At the Dec 30 game, I went with my mother and we were both decked out. Both games were crazy with fans yelling at refs, etc. We screamed and cheered OU amidst the chaos. It was Great! Other than some teenagers in the next section, most Lobo fans tolerated us, some were friendly enough to engage us in discussion. I always root for Big 12 teams in the pit, Texas, TTU, OK, so I'm often in the vast minority, but I find Lobo fans extremely passionate, without the A$$hole mentality of say, some LadyVol fans.

(I don't attend the men's games)

[Gator]

There are so many comments, here and at games, about calls that I’ve tried to learn more about officiating. I have decided that it is getting in the way of my enjoyment of the game and I’m trying to back off.

We play with 3 person teams of refs who are trained to NOT follow the ball. As a fan, I’ve tried, and I can not not follow the ball! When you follow the ball, you miss a lot of what the refs see. I (and most coaches) have only one pair of eyes and they are often distracted by the excitement of the moment, a favorite player, a reaction to the last pass, etc. etc. etc.

Player A has both hands on the ball and is about to take a shot. Player B swats at the ball HARD, hits a bit of hand while she is at it. Player A hits the deck hard, thrown off balance by the impact. She lies there in pain and is slow to get up. Fans of A scream bloody murder when there is no call. They are screaming because A is down and want revenge in the form of a foul call. Most don’t care or know that no foul has happened.

Same situation except that B has a clean block with her hands while her hip connects, hard, with A. Fans of B scream bloody murder when there is a call. They are screaming because 99.9% of them never thought to look for body contact and are positive the refs got it wrong.

I’ve gotten to the point that 1) I expert refs to make some mistakes in a fast and furious contest 2) I expect refs to not call everything they could possibly call and they shouldn’t - it is a judgment call as to whether the breaking of a rule in a particular situation advantages or disadvantages the opposition enough to warrant a call and 3) I assume that they see/know a H*** of a lot more than I do. I am trying to assume the attitude coaches try to instill in their players of not reacting to call but to keep their focus on the next play. I’m batting about 50% with this but at least I am keeping my mouth shut during the game - most of the time.

I never trust the crowd and the harangues on other boards but know that the general opinion of folks a lot more knowledgeable than I is that officiating can and should be a lot better. I’m not sure I can honestly tell the different between a well officiated vs a messed up game but I sure can’t ignore the folks on this board who know more about the game and have opinions about officiating in individual games.

So, I’ve ordered myself into officiating withdrawal and I can tell you it is painful and I am likely to have relapses! :(

[Jimi]

Acually one of our members, is a basketball referee and has called high school, college and pro games. He does not post a lot and seldom makes comments about officiating. One thing I did learn is that player's families and friends, coaches, announcers and others do lurk on the board if not post. You might remember that Stacy Stephan's Mom and Jamie Carey's Mom and Nicole Ohlde's parents came to the last Hoopscoop "annual meeting" in Dallas. Maybe some officials that work B-12 games lurk too? From time to time I remember to think about that before I unload too strongly.

GO Big 12!!

[Bball Girl]

Question:

Can the Big 12 officially reprimand the school's radio annoucers? I thought I've heard Ryan comment a couple of times (not during the games, but during Coach Sharp's radio show) that he'd better be careful about saying too much about the officiating or he'd get a letter from the Big 12. I wasn't sure if he was joking, it can be hard to tell :)

But I couldn't find anything on the Big 12 site.

[swok34]

I don't think I've ever heard of a media person being reprimanded about speaking about the officiating....they aren't in any official capacity of the Big XII, right??

Remember when Mechelle wrote the recent article about officiating...did they lock her in a box? I don't think they did.

But coaches definitely have to walk a very, very fine line....I think her point about that was in the article as well.

[Bball Girl]

I thought about Mechelle's article...but thought the radio folks might be seen differently because they or their company have a contract with the school.
He was probably joking around

[35TangoTango]

The biggest problem with fans that boo EVERY call that goes against their team, is that they become background noise and have no effectiveness. I like the sophisticated crowds that only boo the really bad calls. I think that makes the refs pay a little bit of attention.

And as for Coaches: I've tried to figure out whether Coaches "working" the refs accomplished anything either positive or negative. I had a neighbor (warning - old geezer story coming) who was a Big 12 men's official, then later moved on to the NBA. I asked him one day who he thought were the hardest Coaches to call a game for - he said "Larry Brown and Bill Tubbs". Then I asked him who did the best job of coaching - he said "Larry Brown and Bill Tubbs". So I think most refs keep it pretty much in perspective. Love the story about KMR demonstrating a step-through, though.

As for Refs:

I don't think refs conciously favor one team over another, home or otherwise. I don't think they have a lot of time for considerations like that. It's pretty much reaction; see the play, blow the whistle. I think that the closest thing to being influenced by Coaches is their increased attention on some phase ( now she's looking for step-throughs).

There are factors though: I have a friend on the scoreboard crew that's seen a lot of games from up close, and he is of the opinion that female officials are more driven to be overtly in control of the game, while male officials may be more content to be invisible. The other factor I see a lot is refs who don't trust someone on their crew. If ref A believes that ref B is not doing their job, then ref A will start calling plays out of position to compensate. I wish they'd keep the referee crews together more - I think it would contribute a lot to quality.

Finally, I went to the mens' game Saturday between OU and O'Reilly Auto Parts, and I've got to say that I didn't think the officiating was a bit better than what I've seen in most of the women's games.

[Bball Girl]

Finally, I went to the mens' game Saturday between OU and O'Reilly Auto Parts....

LOL!!

'Course didn't I hear that O'Reilly Auto Parts is also a sponsor for Coach Coale's tv show :)

[MsProudSooner]

I didn't have a good view of Bobby's sweater, but he seemed to have fewer emblems than previous years.

I noticed that O'Reilly's was sponsoring Sherri's show. Betcha she won't be sporting any O'Reilly's logos!

[Scamp]

I didn't have a good view of Bobby's sweater, but he seemed to have fewer emblems than previous years.

I noticed that O'Reilly's was sponsoring Sherri's show. Betcha she won't be sporting any O'Reilly's logos!
Think what discussions we could have if Big 12 coaches had to wear sponsor logos or work uniforms! Should KMR be bright red Dr Pepper this week, or dress in all yellow as Reliant Energy?

[walkaway]

Finally, I went to the mens' game Saturday between OU and O'Reilly Auto Parts, and I've got to say that I didn't think the officiating was a bit better than what I've seen in most of the women's games.

:D

Yeah, I know ... it's starting to make me think I've accidentally switched on NASCAR....