Lieberman on Sanderford

[carolann]

Uh-Oh. The ESPN site has an article by Nancy Lieberman on Nebraska. At the very end of the article, Nancy decides to give Sanderford the benefit of the doubt based on Katie Robinette and next year's recruiting class. The rest of the article is all about how Nebraska is underachieving inspite of many advantages.

"Nebraska has a lot to sell a high school athlete. The Huskers have great facilities, excellent football tradition and great administrative support from Athletic Director Bill Byrne."
http://espn.go.com/ncw/columns/lieberman/1340134.html

[ChipperF1]

I read Nancy Lieberman's piece on Paul Sanderford.

As a Nebraska fan, I'll go on record as it being the biggest waste of server space I've read in a long time.

[cycofan]

I'm kind of curious...what about a "great football tradition" would it be that attracts a young woman to want to play basketball at your school? I found that comment curious at best???

Quick, somebody tell the ISU football staff that it would REALLY help the women's basketball program if they could get the football team into the national title hunt! http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

[BigXII WBB Fan]

Huh?

"As a Nebraska fan..." (from an earlier Chipper posting). You have GOT to be kidding. Give it up! I don't think anybody believes you.

Lieberman makes an excellent analysis of the Nebraska situation. Here's a poignant excerpt: "This program has tremendous potential, and Sanderford has had tremendous success. But how long will it take for the Huskers return to the upper echelon?"

Lieberman acknowledges the cyclic nature of sports. Anybody ever watch the NBA? Bulls up, Bulls down...Lakers up, Lakers down...Pacers up, Pacers down...

[ChipperF1]

You have GOT to be kidding. Give it up! I don't think anybody believes you.

All I can say is, it doesn't matter whether anyone believes me or not. I know the team I root for, and I have since Colleen Matsuhara was head coach, and since my cousin donned scarlet and cream in the mid-1980s. I've seen some good and some bad.

As for Lieberman's analysis? She missed an elementary fact (Nebraska has no seniors on the team? Inaccuracy? Thy name is Amanda Cleveland). Beyond that, she's also not looked at some of the other parts of the ledger (Two Sanderford recruits have left the team, another high Sanderford recruit got injured her freshman year. The transfers that haven't panned out, the JUCO that didn't pan out.). She states the obvious in a lot of areas.

In my opinion, she puts a lot of weight on the leadership issue and concludes "no seniors=no leadership". The team has 6 juniors on it, all of them veteran, all of them have played. Who says you need to be a senior to step up and be a leader? Sorry, I'm not buying that brand.

As for your other post. Basketball isn't brain surgery at all. It's really pretty simple. You get talent, you develop it as best you can, you work hard, you show up and give it an effort every game.

Does Nebraska have talent? Sure they do. But is Paul developing that talent? I don't see it. When I see 46-18 at halftime with the athletes Nebraska has that tells me something funny's going on. When I see Nebraska getting drilled night after night with no resistance, that tells me this team isn't giving it 100%.

Its not that the team is 11th place. The 1995 team was 13-14 and finished 7th in the Big 8. But one thing about that group of kids is, those kids scrapped for every game.
They never quit games. they just weren't at the level to really challenge. But the next year, a lot of those same kids improved, worked and they ended up in the NCAA tournament.

Now Paul's last three teams have made quitting games an art form. A number of players have put themselves above the team. You have a lot of kids who aren't putting the work in. It shows in the results.

You can be a losing team, in athletics somebody loses. In my mind, losing isn't a cardinal sin, however quitting is. The Huskers quit too much. They get down, and they stay down, and comes from the head coach on down.
And if that makes me a "non-fan" because I point that out and I don't raise my right hand and say "Heil, Sanderford" and "Nebraska Uber Alles" on cue, then I guess that makes me a "bad fan".

Sheesh. What Colorado fans say about some Husker fans may be more accurate than I thought. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif





[This message has been edited by ChipperF1 (edited 02-28-2002).]

[BigXII WBB Fan]

Nice diatribe, Chipper.

What a lovely way to represent 'your' team. I'm sure the other fans in this friendly forum are oh-so impressed--especially the young ones who probably really enjoyed your little Nazi comment.

Real classy.

[Jennifer]

I'll speak up for Chipper here. I've been posting here for several years, and have seen many of Chipper's posts. He is a Nebraska fan, all the way. But, he is honest and not afraid to speak (or write) his opinions, no matter harsh they are. When the going is good for NU (rare this year), he's the first to congratulate or sing the praises.
His postings are welcome and appreciated on this forum.

[This message has been edited by Jennifer (edited 02-28-2002).]

[metromaniac]

Big 12----

Suggest you proceed with a bit of caution----Surely you must be looking at the Husker's through some shade of rose colored glasses. You may not like or even agree with Chipper, but he does love that team. His analysis is regretfully, from your perspective, accurate but painful. You both want the same thing--He is your friend and comrade. With time, I hope you come to respect and enjoy him as do we all.

[This message has been edited by metromaniac (edited 02-28-2002).]

[CyRox98]

Originally posted by BigXII WBB Fan:
Nice diatribe, Chipper.

What a lovely way to represent 'your' team. I'm sure the other fans in this friendly forum are oh-so impressed--especially the young ones who probably really enjoyed your little Nazi comment.

Real classy.

Wow, you come across as a real jerk. Guess Chipper isn't allowed to have an opinion that you don't agree with. Chipper is about the best, most insightful poster on this board. If you'd been around for more than five minutes, you'd know that by now.

[BigXII WBB Fan]

Thanks so much for the "jerk" comment.

What's the point of this forum? Oh yeah... to discuss women's Big XII basketball. Just don't disagree with Chipper or you'll be called a "jerk."

You certainly may not agree, but I believe that Chipper is indeed cruel about everyone connected with Nebraska--except Amanda Cleveland. So the NU team is #11? Yes. So they're not going to the NCAA? Right. So he might despise Sanderford? Fine. But, there are ways to express oneself without the Nazi comment, etc.

There are some great folks who post interesting things in this forum. Folks who bring up the truly important things in life, like Meg Brown's battle against cancer. (Yes, to his credit, Chipper certainly did write some excellent words about Amanda Cleveland's battle with aplastic anemia.) There are folks who sing the praises of a surprise fantastic season, such as those great young KSU players are having. There are folks (me included) who believe that Stacey Dales and Sheila Lambert are among the top five players in the country and who love to sing their praises. There are folks who stand behind their perpetual powerhouse teams such as TTU, ISU, Texas and others. There are folks who sympathize with KU's struggles this year. The common thread is the conference and the sport. It's basketball...don't make it personal.

There are some great things to discuss. The tournaments. The seniors. The recruits. Why be hateful? How is calling someone a jerk or demanding that a coach lose a job a productive thing to do in this forum?

Good luck to your team the rest of the way--which ever one that is. I just hope that you don't post something that results in somebody calling you a jerk.

[ISUbballfan]

Originally posted by BigXII WBB Fan:
You certainly may not agree, but I believe that Chipper is indeed cruel about everyone connected with Nebraska--except Amanda Cleveland.

[/B]

BigXII how many of Chipper's posts have you read? I know you are new to posting and was wondering if you lurked for awhile before posting. If you haven't maybe you should go back to the begining of the season and read Chipper's posts. Chipper has never said anything bad and has great things to say about Cannon. Because of Chipper I learned about her and really enjoyed watch her when we played. When any of the girls had a great game he gave them credit. I know I enjoy Chipper's posting and if you don't care for them you don't have to read them.

[BigXII WBB Fan]

ISUbballfan,

Since you mentioned it...here's what appears to be a typical Chipper post: "To be honest, I'm just running out of ways of saying "Nebraska sucks." (1-29-02).

Great language, huh? If this is an adult-only forum, I guess that's fine, but I don't think I want my 10-year old reading his stuff. Yuck. One can be clever without being rude and vulgar.

P.S. You have a great team again this year, and I wish you the best during the rest of the season. (Yeah, I know you who play Tuesday at 8:30 p.m.!) Good luck to Angie in the WNBA too.

[This message has been edited by BigXII WBB Fan (edited 02-28-2002).]

[KSUron]

To go back to the origional issue of carolann's post I think the article about Coach Sanderford was very damaging and in some ways came close to calling for his firing. If you read this article and think its supports Sanderford I think you have missed the underlying thread. To me she is almost saying MAYBE he should get another year or maybe he should be let go now. I wonder if his future is short. I am inclined to think that Marion Washington will get another year but with the new AD Al Bohl you can't be too sure. He does not strike me as a patient man.

[ChipperF1]

KSUron, I see where you are going here. My contentions on the article where about her fact-checking (or relative lack therof). As far as a stand either way, I don't think she takes one in the article. She missed some facts about the last few seasons that, in my opinion, should not be overlooked when you are discusses this issue.
As for Marian Washington, I would much rather see her resign with an improved season next year. She has a recruiting class coming in that she's excited about, and that could help set up the next head coach whoever he or she may be (Some say that it could be Cheryl Burnett before too long). Marian's record in the game, and what she's done for womens athletics since the 60s deserve a lot of respect and she deserves more than just be summarily booted out.

Now to "unpleasantness" of this thread. I will give this answer, and then I will let it go and look ahead to the Big 12 tournament and check out my Huskers (yes, I said "my") against Iowa State and perhaps beyond.

"It's basketball...don't make it personal.

Well, Big XII WBB Fan, you've made it personal in three areas. 1. Implication that I'm not a husker fan 2. Implication that I have no class 3. Implication that I am, in your words, "rude and vulgar.
I will not engage in personal attacks and cheap shots. You are right, its basketball. In that vein, I implore you to consider one of two courses of action.

1. Ignore my posts
OR
2. Refute them based on the facts, because everything I write is based on what I saw in that ballgame and what I see in the statistics.

So the NU team is #11? Yes. So they're not going to the NCAA? Right. So he might despise Sanderford? Fine. But, there are ways to express oneself without the Nazi comment, etc.

It isn't that the team is 11th place, its way they are earning 11th place. If Nebraska came out every game and played hard from tip to horn and ended up 4-12 in the conference, I wouldn't be happy but I'd give them props for showing up and playing hard. This year's team, in my opinion, hasn't done that in very many games. This team quits, and they admit to it. Look at every game where they've been blown out over the last two years and read the press write-ups and the player and coach quotes and you find the same phrase.

"We didn't go out there and compete. We quit out there"

Despise Sanderford? No. I've met the man on occasion. He's a good, decent person. A little bit of a ham? Sure. He's a good husband, a devoted father, and he gets a lot of credit for being a booster of the womens game at all levels.

But over the last three years, he's been an uninvolved, inflexible, bad head coach. He hasn't shown any leadership at the top, and the kids aren't responding to him. Once again, look at the facts. Five days after the best game a Nebraska team has played all season, you have two players suspended for team rule violations? The kids are responsible, but attitude reflects leadership, and Paul is just as guilty.

I believe its time to relieve Paul Sanderford and get a new head coach, and perhaps relieve some kids who just aren't coming to play, too. If that is being "cruel", then I guess I am.

I want my 10-year old reading his stuff. Yuck. One can be clever without being rude and vulgar.

I will agree with you here. If my language offends, I apologize for that. I take great care in what I write, but sometimes even I cross a line.
As for your 10-year old, I give much respect for being a parent who hasn't given in to the lassiez-faire attitude of our "popular" culture.


if that makes me a "non-fan" because I point that out and I don't raise my right hand and say "Heil, Sanderford" and "Nebraska Uber Alles" on cue, then I guess that makes me a "bad fan".

there are ways to express oneself without the Nazi comment, etc.

I said what I said because there are good number of Husker fans who believe if you have a criticism of a Nebraska team then you aren't a "true fan". In my view it does border on "Nebraska Uber Alles" sometimes. You don't believe me? Ask any sports columnist in Nebraska who dares say, "the Huskers aren't all that", or the one random guy in the office or at the plant who says, "the Huskers are overrated."
And this happens among fans of any team to be sure.

I'm a Husker fan, all the way, but I'm not going to give props were none is earned, and that goes for any team. When Nebraska played well, like they did in the comeback against Creighton and like they did in that great win over Kansas State, they got the thumbs up from me. Even when they gave a serious effort against Tulane and lost, and when they played hard and lost to Texas at home and K-State in Manhattan, I gave up the love, because they played hard.

When you go out, get blown out and go through the motions, I'm going to say so. And too many times over the last three years, Nebraska Womens Basketball have gone out uninspired, disjointed and every other team has made them look like a candypants bunch of 5th graders.

While I still go to games, watch games, listen to games and wear my Husker gear, I'm not going to back away from calling it like I see it. If that bothers you or anyone, scroll back to those two options and pick one of the options.

With malice towards none, and charity towards all, the defense rests. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

Are you ready for some Big 12 Tournament Basketball?




[This message has been edited by ChipperF1 (edited 03-01-2002).]

[BigXII WBB Fan]

Yes!

I'm not foolish enough to think that our Huskers stand a chance at blowing ISU out, but I'm always hopeful they'll make a great effort--sound like you still are too.

What's your take on that old "a team that plays Tuesday doesn't win it all" adage? Might this be the year it falls? ISU seems ripe to spoil that old notion.

Been to Devaney yesterday or today? Some interesting games.

[ChipperF1]

I'd like to see Nebraska spoil Iowa State's plans, but that won't happen.

Iowa State has a shot but winning 4 games in this tournament is asking a lot. With Junod in the lineup, i'd give 'em even money.

I was I could be at the Devaney tomorrow, that Class A Championship Game reminds me a lot of the '98 Final. Southeast is so formidable, but Bellevue East is scrappy and Zoucha and Cydney Franklin will keep this interesting.

I also hope we get a Pius-SSC Class B final.

[BigXII WBB Fan]

I think you got your wish for class B. That should be a good game!

[CyRox98]

Great response, Chipper. You've shown once again you are the class of the board!

By the way, "coming across" as a jerk and "being" a jerk are two different things. Imagine reading your post from my computer, not knowing what was going on in your mind at the time and figuring out whether or not you know what you're talking about. It's not that easy. This is a forum where it is imperative to make sure comments are not taken the wrong way. Yes, there are ways to say things without attacking someone, or SEEMING like you are. Sometimes things get posted which should probably have been 'edited out.' I am as guilty as the next person on this, so I offer my apology for the jerk comment. Please accept.

[BigXII WBB Fan]

Absolutely.

Have a nice weekend, and I look forward to reading lots of great posts from you (and the rest of the BixXII fans) next week--tournament time!