Other conferences/other games

[swok34]

A Top 10 lost tonite to an unranked...Rice 57, LaTech 56

Duke walloped their opponent.

I believe this is the last night of reg season SEC, their tourney starts on Thursday.
Only upset I've seen so far was Auburn knocking off #10 South Carolina 67 -49, wow, that's more than knocking off, that's a beating. Auburn is also unranked.

[schooner2]

Interesting that in Mechelle Voepel's chat today that she felt OU had fallen to a #2 seed because of the lost to Texas. At least OU is back ahead of La Tech now (if they were ever behind them).

Should be between Duke, OU, Purdue, and maybe Vandy for the #1 seed. Really think Vandy should be left off that list right now.

Since the title of the subject of this thread mentions other conferences.....
Someone has brought up the idea of shortening conference tourneys. I'd have to agree with Coach Coale that I think the Big 12 should look into either moving the conference tourney up a week or should use an 8 team format rather than 12. I'm always one to root for an underdog so I'd like to see all 12 play in the tourney.

Even if they just moved up the tourney by a couple of days would be great.

[swok34]

A lot of folks in the BB world are saying OU lost it's #1 seed because of the loss to Texas......and I don't get it, because I would think Tennessee losing at home to the same team AND also having lost the week before would have a larger impact than 1 OU loss and a loss a month ago. Tennessee has managed to hold #1 RPI & #1 SOS, but OU's #3 and SOS #5 hasn't suffered at all this week.

Sherri Coale mentioned in her radio show that there would be 3 (OU, Tennessee, Duke...perhaps fighting for 2 - #1 seeds.....I know she mentioned Connecticut, but how can Stanford be assured #1 with their SOS and conference strength????

She also said that Iowa State gets a mandatory invite to the Midwest Region....I didn't know that; and OU could very well be placed there.

[mc6821]

Swok, I think that a school that hosts a regional gets automatically placed in its particular regional bracket (assuming, of course, that they make it to the tourney). Last year CU was the host school for the midwest regional and the Buffs went into the midwest bracket. ISU was also placed in the midwest last year, and if CU had gotten past Vandy then both B12 teams would have gone to the Pepsi Center (ISU did make it there, of course). So I guess that it is conceivable that OU goes into the midwest this year...setting up a possible Sweet-16 battle with ISU in Ames!

[dem]

Louisiana Tech's loss tonight to unranked Rice (RPI #54) may very well have given a top-four host seed to one more Big 12 team. La Tech's case for a host seed, already very weak, will be significantly damaged by this loss (their first to a conference opponent in over four years, after 77 straight wins). Their RPI will drop from its current #22, already far lower than in a normal year for them. With an 0-3 record to ranked teams and no wins over any team with an RPI better than 38, my guess is that the Committee will likely deny them a top-four seed. You can also expect to see them drop several places in both national polls, because their high rank has always depended on a "zero losses" conference record. (If they never lose, you can't prove that they're not good, can you?) There's even a decent chance that they will drop precipitously, down to the bottom of the top 20.

South Carolina's loss to unranked Auburn kills whatever slim chance they might have had for a #1 seed, shrinking the list of contenders to Oklahoma, Stanford, Duke, Purdue, Tennessee, and Vanderbilt. (Of course UConn contends with no one, they and their #1 seed are off in their own little world.) With Purdue barely squeezing by Minnesota to win the Big 10 -- and facing a tough battle to win the Big 10 tournament -- I think they're a very unlikely choice for a #1 seed. With Vanderbilt's loss to unranked Arkansas, along with losses to Florida, South Carolina, and Texas Tech, I would have to think that they also would be a long shot. So it really seems to come down to Stanford, Tennessee, Oklahoma, and Duke for the three available #1 seeds.

If Stanford should lose even a single game I believe they'd be out of the picture, and that would virtually end the uncertainty. If, though, they can win out (as seems likely), everybody's last few games will probably be decisive. At least in my mind, if Oklahoma wins their last two games plus a couple in Kansas City, they should really be a lock for a #1 seed, but I guess no one can say that for certain. But suppose Stanford, Duke and Tennessee win out, and Oklahoma wins their last two plus two more in Kansas City. Then we would have this:


Probable Record Against Teams in RPI Top-25

Stanford 1-0
Duke 3-2
Tennessee 11-3
Oklahoma 10-4


Probable Record Against Teams in RPI Top-15

Stanford 1-0
Duke 1-2
Tennessee 8-4
Oklahoma 9-4


Seems clear enough to me -- Oklahoma would deserve the #1 seed at least as much as anyone else. What will actually happen, who knows.

[This message has been edited by dem (edited 02-21-2002).]

[This message has been edited by dem (edited 02-22-2002).]

[Jennifer]

It does annoy me that OU losing to Texas at Texas seems to hurt them whereas TN poor performances lately, including the loss on their homecourt to Texas doesn't matter squat. Sorta like them staying ranked ahead of OU earlier in the season after they both only lost to UConn and everyone saw clearly that OU played them much better. It's just because they are Tennessee "the almighty" of the wbb world. I hope they get knocked off early again this year (remember Xavier last year) and sent home.
If OU wins out, they should get a #1 seed and this will all be moot. So OU, win out!!

[schooner2]

dem - agree totally with your analysis. It may very well come down to OU and Duke and if the selection committee will reward OU for playing in a much tougher conference than Duke

Jennifer - I guess even as much as OU has done the past 3 years, we will not be given as much a benefit of the doubt as Tennessee. Just won't happen until Oklahoma dominates the scene like a Purdue, UCONN, Duke, or Tennessee.

I don't know that I really care about seeds. OU will not get below a 3 seed and that is all that matters to me is that OU be a 1,2, or 3 cuz I feel the quality of opponent that you play doesn't change that much. What does matter is what geographical region we go to. I do not want to be in the West or Midwest. In order of where I most don't want to go: 1) Midwest - just do not want to face ISU in Ames - totally unfair and OU has never won there. 2) West - time difference is such a killer. Not only are they 2 hours behind but they start games there so late (10 pm local time) 3) East - don't want to be in UCONN's bracket 4) Mideast - the perfect bracket for OU!

[YCN]

Dem your assessment seems pretty much spot-on to me, but certain things kinda burn me.

1. Tennessee is a God, they have Pat. And if they lose fewer than 5 games, as a god, they deserve an #1 seed.

Tennessee plays in the same NCAA division as OU, and the rest of the Big 12, and they have losses at home (bad loss) to UConn, at Vandy, and at home to UT. OU has losses (good loss) to UConn at Storrs, at ISU, and at UT. Who would you pick for a #1? You say the SEC is better than the Big 12? So what's going on with Vandy, with Florida, with South Carolina? Give me a break!

2. Stanford is a God, the have Tara. They play in an incredibly weak conference, and lost to aforementioned Tennessee, at home. I've heard statements that the Pac-10 is much better than their RPI, but you can't convince me that a conference that had less than a mediocre record in nonconference play and has a bunch of teams that play ball like they enjoy 2 humiliations a week a challenge.

3. Duke is an awesome God, they have Alana. Duke is in the ACC. The conference is usually awesome. In men's basketball. I love the RPI built on beating Elon College, who beat Easton, who had a good record against the bottom 50 in the RPI. Don't forget, the RPI is 25% your record, 50% your opponents' records against everyone BUT you, and 25% the record of your opponent's teams against everyone BUT them. Whew!

4. UConn is an unbeatable God, they have Geno, they have the fab seniors Sue Bird, Swin Cash, Asjha Jones, and Tamika Williams. Hockey pucks! Their conference is as close to an eternal bye as it can be, considering that a few (2-3) people consider the Big East a top-6 conference. While the teams of the SEC, Big 10, and Big 12 are beating their brains out trying to win against superior teams, UConn has their usual "Costa Del Sol" experience against their hapless conference. We could all be so lucky.

Fine, UConn gets an 18-game bye into the top berth in the NCAA, and they led OU by less than 5 with 6 minutes to go at their house in December. (Don't think we forgot, girls. And, BTW - we have four senior starters of our own.)

I'm feeling sorta punky right now, caught the crud recently and have been pulling 60 hour work weeks, but if ANY Big 12 team in the Dance takes the golden girls out of the equation, it won't surprise me one bit. Forget all the unbeatable UConn garbage, that is an extreme myth.

[dem]

It occurs to me that if I were on the Committee, I would have the perfect answer to any top seed who would object to coming to Ames. [Because, really, it IS outrageously unfair, if Iowa State makes it to the fourth round.]

Simple answer: Put UConn in the Midwest -- then the other #1's don't have that concern, and UConn is supposed to be able to beat anybody anywhere. So, no problems. And really, I think the UConn players would be happy with that solution too. They would love a chance to stomp on Iowa State (Sue Bird said so explicitly last year). Their fans travel very well, and so they wouldn't object that much. Now Geno, I'm not sure how he would feel about it.

The only problem with this otherwise fine idea is that the seeding is supposed to work automatically, in a sense. That is, the Committee ranks all teams from #1 (UConn, obviously) to #64. Then #1 gets put in the same region as the weakest #2 seed, the strongest #3 seed, and the weakest #4 seed (as I understand it). Now, since ISU is guaranteed to be in the Midwest region, UConn could only be put in that same region if ISU ends up as the strongest #3 seed (could happen), or the weakest #4 seed (could also happen), or the strongest #5 seed (hope not), and so on.

[Bevo]

I think I speak for all Longhorn fans that we are a bit insulted that people would think that OU having lost to us would knock them out of top-seed consideration. After all, we are a top-10 RPI team. The thinking should go more along the lines of...OU beat Texas in Norman and played them to overtime in Austin. That makes for a solid #1 in my opinion.

[DingoBoy24]

Originally posted by dem:
.....With Purdue barely squeezing by Minnesota to win the Big 10 -- and facing a tough battle to win the Big 10 tournament -- I think they're a very unlikely choice for a #1 seed.......... ...........down to Stanford, Tennessee, Oklahoma, and Duke for the three available #1 seeds.

This message has been edited........

First of all let me point out Purdue played Penn St last night and not Minnesota, they barely beat them playing at home 64-58. I don't know why the margin of victory here is being questioned but this happens all the time in the B12, If OU barely squeezed by another B12 team you all say because the conference is competitive but if it happens in another conference it's because of mediocrity. The B10 is the rated 3rd best conference in the country and Penn St is a very GOOD but not great. Remember, they beat TEXAS (in TX) ealier in the season 67-65! The same Texas team that beat Oklahoma and Tennessee! I know you all might come up with many GOOD reason why that happened (PSU beating TX)while it shouldn't have but it did.
But I totally agree with you that as of now Purdue doesn't deserve a #1 seed at all, I think Oklahoma, Uconn and Tennessee are a lock, the fourth #1 seed will likely be given to --->Stanford, Duke, Vandy and Purdue (in that order).

[carolann]

I lied like a rug when I said that I had learned my lesson about lurking on other people's boards. I read several other team boards regularly including Purdue's board. Recently a Purdue fan posted that the OU loss to Texas would hurt Purdue's RPI and no one contradicted the post. I don't think some people are paying close attention. They are just going by their pre-conceived notions.

[swok34]

I agree, carolann.....OU's RPI didn't suffer in the loss to Texas, nor did Tennessee's. I don't think the RPI moves as much as we think it will in a loss. So, OU having beat Purdue earlier in the season probably leads some to believe that their RPI will suffer.

And, I personally think that the Big 10 should get consideration before the Pac-10 especially. The ACC conference RPI is sitting
at #4 after the Big 10.

Listening to Sherri Coales' show last night, Bob Barry, Sr.; the call by call for the OU men's BB team is the host. He mentioned last night that the men's seedings are set BEFORE the conference tournaments......I think that's odd.....is that true? The women's side we know depends a lot on their conference tourneys.

[DblT81]

Swok, I don't think the seedings are set on the men's side until selection Sunday, right after the women's are announced. Maybe he meant the venues for the first two rounds are set and don't depend on the seedings.....

[swok34]

Originally posted by Bevo:
I think I speak for all Longhorn fans that we are a bit insulted that people would think that OU having lost to us would knock them out of top-seed consideration. After all, we are a top-10 RPI team. The thinking should go more along the lines of...OU beat Texas in Norman and played them to overtime in Austin. That makes for a solid #1 in my opinion.

ditto, bevo.......I can't figure this one out for the life of me.
and Tennessee had back-to-back losses to OU's other loss back in mid January.

[Big12Bear]

Rice has a very solid team at 18-7 with an RPI of 42, but this should drop LTU in the polls. Their RPI is 26, and they play in an extremely weak conference. They aren't even worthy of being in the top 10, and might not be (top 10) in next week's polls.

[dem]

Originally posted by DingoBoy24:
First of all let me point out Purdue played Penn St last night and not Minnesota, they barely beat them playing at home 64-58. I don't know why the margin of victory here is being questioned but this happens all the time in the B12, If OU barely squeezed by another B12 team you all say because the conference is competitive but if it happens in another conference it's because of mediocrity.

Sorry I was not sufficiently clear. I meant that the margin of victory in the final conference standings was small:

Purdue: 13-3
Minnesota: either 12-4 or 11-5

By contrast, Oklahoma is likely to have a larger victory margin ahead of whoever takes second in the Big 12.