Tonight's games

[AirLonghorn]

Iowa State 62
Missouri 52
(The more masculine coach won)

Baylor 80
Colorado 69
(The skinnier coach won)

[CyFanRick]

Air,
Any results on the Oklahoma State/Nebraska game?
Last I heard, State was ahead and I suspect they won, but haven't heard a final.

[DblT81]

http://sports.yahoo.com/ncaaw/scoreboard/

[schooner2]

Oklahoma State defeated Nebraska 72-66 and the Cowgirls are now above .500 again at 14-13 and 6-8 in conference. What a showdown with Baylor they will have on Sunday. The game will be televised on Fox at 1 pm. Can't count out OSU in that one. Their backs are still against the wall and need to beat both Baylor and A&M and probably win 2 at the Big 12 Tourney in order to go dancing. That may be all they need though because they will have finished so strong knocking off several Top 15 teams.

[Jennifer]

I think it would be great if OSU continued this run and finished strong...and made the dance.

Halterman is on his way out the door; it would be a fitting tribute to him and his career at OSU if his team got him there, and vice versa.

[Daddo]

Whale of a game, Mizzou fought like heck and played the best defensive game of the year. Game marred by HIDEOUS officiating or would have been closer. I've about had it with these guys, they were just making stuff up out of thin air last night, first 8 fouls of the 2nd half called on Mizzou. Horrid, horrid job by the refs cost MU a shot at a game that would have kept tourney hopes alive.


[QUOTE]Originally posted by AirLonghorn:
[B]Iowa State 62
Missouri 52
(The more masculine coach won)

[swok34]

I think it would be great if OSU continued this run and finished strong...and made the dance

no, no, no,.......I suspect it's gonna be "bedlam" for the 3rd time in Kansas City high noon Wednesday....I really think OSU will have the 8 or 9 seed in the tournament.

[This message has been edited by swok34 (edited 02-21-2002).]

[schooner2]

Oh, that is guaranteed considering they would play OU next. Never fails that OU plays OSU in the Big 12 Tourney. If so, this would be the 3rd time in 4 years. OSU and ISU are two teams that OU would like to avoid prior to the championship game.

[swok34]

I sat down last night, once again, and tried to predict this crazy race and I've got TAMU as either the 8 or 9 seed, too.
I know Oklahoma State has always played well in the first game, maybe this is the year that TAMU wins their 1st one (please!).

I've got Baylor beating OSU and TAMU beating OSU. I think even if OSU wins both games, they would tie up with Texas Tech, provided TTU doesn't win in Norman.....I was assuming TTU would win the tie breaker, but they split their games so that may not be true.

eeeekkkkk, all these ties. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by swok34 (edited 02-21-2002).]

[two cents]

Yeah...Tech would win the tie breaker based on divisional record. I thought about that Bedlam High Noon thing myself. Wondered how you folks would feel about it. If it happens OSU might be on the verge of an NCAA tourney berth. If they win out against BU and A&M, and win two games in the Big 12 tournament, they would have 5 top 25 wins and enough SOS boost (from tourney) to get in the 40-45 RPI range. Combined with such a strong finish to the season, that might get them a bid even if they lose in the semis. They could play as if on a rampage.

[Jennifer]

OK, I'll rephrase.
I'd like to see OSU finish strong, as long as they wouldn't have to go through OU to do so! http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif
I really haven't paid attention to how all the seeds could end up; it gives me a headache!

[two cents]

LOL. That's what I thought. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/wink.gif

[swok34]

these are my seed guesses as of TODAY:

1) OU*


2, 3, 4) Baylor, Colorado, Kansas State....in no order because I have to go back and read the rules to figure them all out. If Colorado wins over Kansas State, I think that would put them ahead of KSU, but since Baylor has the head-to-head over CU, and KSU has the head-to-head over BU......I'm lost....I think we earlier said it would be CU, BU, KSU. ??

5) Texas
6) Iowa State
7) Texas Tech
8) TAMU
9) OSU
10) Missouri
11) Nebraska
12) Kansas*

*locks.

[Big12Bear]

swok34---I am thinking your exact scenario will play out for BU, CU, KSU. I guess best divisional record will decide the three? If BU gets left out in the cold due to having a worse divisional record in the tougher South Div, I won't be a happy camper.

Perhaps it would be better to root for KSU to beat CU and just take the 3 seed. Again, assuming this scenario plays out.

[soonerborn]

Swok:

Here's what I have:

#1 OU 14-2 better find range from the FT line
#2 KSU 12-4 winning at Colorado and home against MU
#3 BU 11-5 beating OSU and losing in Ames
#4 ISU 10-6 winning out with MU, KU and BU (going with ISU over CU because ISU has won more games in the North Division - have no idea if that matters - it's my formula today)
#5 CU 10-6 losing at Baylor, to KSU and winning NU
#6 UT 9-7 winning A&M losing at CU
#7 TT 9-8 winning A&M and NU - losing at OU
#8 OSU 7-9 losing to BU winning A&M
#9 MU 5-11 losing the rest of the way
#10 A&M 5-12 losing the rest of the way
#11 NU 4-12 losing the rest of the way
#12 KU 0-16 finishing at last

[swok34]

Big12bear....mred and schooner are a lot better at figuring these ties out than I am, but earlier when ISU was still in the mix and I presumed there would be a 4-way tie, it would have been:
ISU
CU
BU
KSU

I think..... http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif I do know that if you have 2 north division teams tied, you compare their records 1st and you set the south team aside and figure them AFTER you figure the north teams first....
thoroughly confused now http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif


sooner: these two would trade places because TAMU wins the head to head over Missouri.

#9 MU 5-11 losing the rest of the way
#10 A&M 5-12 losing the rest of the way

[This message has been edited by swok34 (edited 02-21-2002).]

[This message has been edited by swok34 (edited 02-21-2002).]

[grojc]

Sooner born, sorry to be picky but UT beat Colorado and finishes up at KU. If they and ISU wins out who gets the tie breaker? UT beat ISU, is that it?

I actually think Colorado will lose to KSU leaving UT tied with CU for fourth. Again, UT beat them, is that the tiebreaker?

[soonerborn]

swok - do they trade places even if one team has more losses

grojc - I think the head-to-head winner takes precedence

I tried reading the tiebreak rules - but ended up more confused than ever! http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/confused.gif

[soonerborn]

Here are the exact tiebreaker rules from the Big XII - I will defer to a CPA from the accounting firm of Fisher-Price who has the answers to these rules hermetically sealed on Funk and Wagnall's front porch!

Following is the procedure for breaking ties in seeding for the Big 12 Basketball Tournaments (men’s and women’s). Tournament seeds are ranked 1-12 based on conference winning percentage.

(a) If two teams are tied and they are from different divisions, the winner of the game between the two tied teams shall be the higher seed.

(b) If two tied teams are tied and they are from the same division, the team with an advantage in head-to-head competition shall be the higher seed.

(c) If two teams remain tied, there will be a comparison of overall record against division teams only (10 divisional games).

(d) If two teams remain tied, there will be a *comparison of record against the highest ranked team(s) (based upon Conference winning percentage) in the division and proceeding through in order of divisional finish.

(e) If two teams remain tied, there will be a *comparison of record against the highest ranked team(s) (based upon Conference winning percentage) in the opposite division and proceeding through in order of divisional finish.

(f) If two teams remain tied, the higher seed will be chosen by draw.

(g) If three or more teams are tied, ties among divisional opponents will be broken by using steps (b) through (f) and the head-to-head results will be used to break ties between non-divisional teams. When three or more teams from the same division are tied step (b) will consist of a mini-round robin among those tied teams. At any point during the process of breaking ties among three or more teams that the number of tied teams are reduced to two, head-to-head competition would be used as the primary tiebreaker, followed by steps (c) through (f).

*Note: When comparing against the ‘highest’ ranked team(s)’ in either division, the comparison will be based upon how tied teams did against all teams in a given placement, rather than a team that wins a tiebreaker at another position. For example, if two teams are tied for fifth and two teams are tied for first, the head-to-head comparison would be how the fifth place teams did against the first place teams combined, and vice versa.

[swok34]

sooner, can't have one team in the Big XII 5-11; one team in Big XII 5-12, they all play 16 games; I just noticed your standings line.

I show Texas A & M currently @ 5-9 and Missouri @ 5-9. I like Texas A & M's chances better than I like Missouri's, esp. Missouri playing without Unrau, though I was surprised by last nights score vs. ISU.

[soonerborn]

I mis-typed - not unusual after trying to read the tiebreak rules

[Big12Bear]

I think we need statistician jen to intervene and decipher this for us http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

[mred]

Hey, all you need is my spreadsheet to calculate the seedings for you. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif Although until Time-Warner fixes their Roadrunner service, you can't download it from my server right now.

[This message has been edited by mred (edited 02-21-2002).]

[Jennifer]

I'll defer to MRED's spreadsheet.
All this tiebreaker seeding stuff gives me a headache. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

[schooner2]

This is going to be downright comical this year. I can't wait to hear sports radio personalities here in the OKC area try to figure this out on the spot when callers call in and ask how to break tie-breakers.

I've read and re-read the tie-breakers and sometimes I still can't do it right. One that would confuse me is a 4-way tie between two North Division teams and two South Division teams. Ain't got a clue how to solve that one.

[mred]

Originally posted by schooner:

I've read and re-read the tie-breakers and sometimes I still can't do it right. One that would confuse me is a 4-way tie between two North Division teams and two South Division teams. Ain't got a clue how to solve that one.

This is how I undersatnd it (and how b12seedings.xls does it):

Compare the two north teams. Compare the two south teams. Then compare North #1 and South #1. Let's say South #1 beat North #1. We then compare North #1 with South #2. If South #2 beats North #1, then the order is S1 S2 N1 N2. If North #1 beats South #2, then North #1 is second and we compare N2 and S2 for third and fourth.

[schooner2]

Originally posted by mred:
This is how I undersatnd it (and how b12seedings.xls does it):

Compare the two north teams. Compare the two south teams. Then compare North #1 and South #1. Let's say South #1 beat North #1. We then compare North #1 with South #2. If South #2 beats North #1, then the order is S1 S2 N1 N2. If North #1 beats South #2, then North #1 is second and we compare N2 and S2 for third and fourth.

Okay. It's just the rules are little bit vague here. You definitely compare N#1 and S#1. But after determining that, I didn't know what you do. If S#1 beat N#1 I didn't know if you then give N#1 the 2nd spot or if you have to compare N#1 against S#2. Rules don't say anything about that here. But your way sounds feasible.

[mred]

I think I came to that conclusion after looking at old Big XII seedings. The rules are very vague about it, but it seems that it is the way they have done it in the past.

It wouldn't be fair for N1 to automatically be second anyway. That means that S2 can't possibly do better than third even though their only tiebreaker loss could be to the first team.

[This message has been edited by mred (edited 02-21-2002).]

[Bob_Ballew]

Mred, based upon the rules, I believe your statement would be correct.