Sour Grapes?

[Bob_Ballew]

Walkaway, you want Baylor to get beat, not just lose! What gives?

[Bball Girl]

Maybe he's an OU fan too !

[spooky]

Zo, you must not have been reading Raiderpower the last few days. Apparently KMR cheats constantly, teaches every one of our players to cheat as well, and intentionally diverts the refs attention so our players can assault the opposing players. I wouldn't be surprised if she has every ref in the conference under some sort of mind control (except Charles Gonzales apparently :D ) and probably is responsible for the Hindenburg disaster and the Irish Potato Famine.

Actually, the close loss to Baylor combined with Kim not being the most popular of opposing coaches in Lubbock has combined into some sort of potent fog floating around Raiderland and as a result Walkaway and others have taken a tough emotional game and somehow turned it into a personal vendetta. Hopefully it will subside soon.

[walkaway]

oh, that's good. that's like asking if somebody has stopped beating his wife.

[vickie1ok]

Maybe he's an OU fan too !

Bball Girl, why would we OU fans care about who wins between Tech and Baylor? OU is competing with Nebraska for position in the big 12, not Tech or Baylor, or Texas or KSU or ISU.

[DBLTFarmer]

Just like in many other cases, we have some fans on Raider Power who may get out of hand or maybe a little off with their thinking. Most of the fans their have pointed out that officiating did not cost Tech the game. Most have given props to Baylor and that they played a good game.

As I said in another post I congratulate Baylor on a tough win.

Now, I don't like KMR and her on court antics. I havent liked them since she became the coach of Baylor. I don't like her methods and in some cases think she has done some unethical things. I think she hurts the game and as I said in an earlier post I do not like the physical game.

Which coach in the Big 12 is on the playing floor and out of the coaches box more than any other coach??

Which coach in the league gets into the officials ears more than any other coach in the league??

I have nothing against Baylor, its fans, or athletes.

Now with that being said it is only my opinion. I am entitled to that as are any of you. I'm sure that some if many out there don't like Marsha Sharp and that is your perogative.

I don't have sour grapes about the loss, Tech just did not play tough enough and knock down shots to win the game.

[DblT81]

Vickie: Walkaway said- OU please beat Baylor, with a heavy emphasis on the beat part. OU plays Baylor you know, so perhaps Walkaway just wants OU to do really well for once. ;)

Next: I thought we discussed last year that it was not a good idea to bring heated discussions from other boards to this one.

Spooky, if you have a problem with what Tech fans are posting on RaiderPower, maybe you should discuss it over there or use the Private Message feature here to alert your fellow Baylor fans to charge RaiderPower and defend KMR's honor.

I am sure the majority of Tech fans don't want to be labeled by my opinions and likewise, I'd rather not be grouped with certain Tech fans. We have a lot of vocal fans. They keep their opinions, for the most part, in their "house" at RaiderPower.

Every team has good fans and those that you'd rather keep in the closet. Tech has more than any other team in this conference so the law of averages says that more imbeciles will be present.

If you would like to discuss the topic about KMR being on the court all the time, then introduce it here for discussion. I don't think it is appropriate to come running over here to complain about what people said on RaiderPower. That of course, as always, is just my opinion.

[brolewis]

I'm sure that some if many out there don't like Marsha Sharp and that is your perogative.
I know that KMR is not the most liked coach in the Big 12, but I love her and what she has done with the program. She has a fire about her that carries over to the players and she sticks up for the players.

That being said, I think that you would have a much harder time finding those who do not like Marsha Sharp. She is one class act. She has developed an excellent legacy at Tech and has my respect and the respect of a number of people out there. You do not build the kind of reputation that she has earned by being poorly received. She knows what it takes to be successful long-term and has worked hard to build up the reputation that she currently has.

[brolewis]

I am sure the majority of Tech fans don't want to be labeled by my opinions and likewise, I'd rather not be grouped with certain Tech fans. We have a lot of vocal fans. They keep their opinions, for the most part, in their "house" at RaiderPower.
DblT81, I agree with you totally. I jumped on board with HoopScoop because I got tired of the antics at BaylorFans. There are members of that community that frankly embarass me as a Baylor fan. I have not seen anyone post comments from that forum here (thankfully) and I personally would not post comments from RaiderPower, or any other team fan board for that matter, on here. Those are places for fans to rant and rave about their team in an isolated environment. HoopScoop is a community built around a more open environment, where we can all "just get along". Let those fans rant and rave in their worlds, but don't bring it here.

[DblT81]

...perhaps Walkaway just wants OU to do really well for once.

Darn, that came out poorly. :oo OU fans, I apologize, I meant that for once it was Walkaway's hope for OU to win NOT that OU hasn't done well before....

I think I'll stop while I'm behind....

[spooky]

DoubleT,

you're right about cross-pollinating between this board and the others, and I really didn't intend to start such a thing. I was trying to explain to Zo why Walkaway posted what he did, and since his post on this board was directly born of the emotions and attitude from the whole RP discussion, in which Walkaway was an active participant, I believed it was necessary to reference those discussions. It was probably not the wisest move on my part.

Further I agree about the local boards. I read and post on BaylorFans, but never mention this board there at all because I'm afraid of what would end up here.

[walkaway]

For the record: To those who consider what I said sour grapes, let me clarify.
The behavior in question is every bit as unpalatable to me when the coach behaving that way is RMK as when it's KMR. (maybe more; after all, there is a consideration of maturity involved). To limit my perception of either coach to that one dimension would be to do the coach serious injustice.

I find Mulkey Robertson's coaching style annoying. I find Baylor's playing style objectionable. Doesn't mean I don't think that she has good points or that I don't think her players are good players or good students. (Okay, ideally, they'd be more finesse and less physical but that's part of the style of ball thing.) I dislike her style of basketball ... thoroughly.

But then, with the exception of his aversion to the dunk, I don't much care for rmk either ... he strikes me as a man with a great deal of internal integrity and external, um, forthrightness; but not tons of maturity, and a really odd sense of appropriate commentary/behavior.

That said, it may be logical to take history and achievements into account when determining what's acceptable behavior. Doesn't mean histrionics ought to be excused in either case. Where one seems to say, "don't like what you see? look somewhere else," the other seems to say, "hey, watch what I can get by with next." I must say, neither strikes me as a congenial leader or a particularly adroit role model.

Oh, and about OU -- like I feel about KSU and the Tigers: if you're not playing the Lady Raiders, why wouldn't I want you to win? (Especially if you are playing UT! ... hmm; maybe a little old-wound, cherished-grudge there; sue me!) I mean, if we're going to brag about how tough the Big 12 is, shouldn't we want every team to play well?

[YCN]

walkaway, congratulations on your 100th post.

One thing about this board, and something that is sure as clockwork, is that some fans from the state of Texas are sure to take exception to the post of a fan of a different team from that state on at least several occasions each season.

Usually these little spats end with little lasting rancor; I just think that in large part it reflects the competitive nature of the fans from your fair state. But for whatever happens today, something else will happen tomorrow.

And as I've learned from posting here for some years now, sometimes it's better to fold a good hand rather than add to the pot. I admire what KMR has done with the Baylor team, although I do occasionally experience some irritation at some of here quirks. She's still fairly young as high-level Division I coaches go though, and I'll bet there are a few legends out there whose reputations out-grew their transgressions.

KMR might just be one of those. But it's a ways between here and there, and one thing this conference does to people is humble their overblown expectations. For me, my dream is that someday OU will win three in a row against the darned Twister Sisters, who seem to take great delight it piling misery on my team. I tell you, it just ain't fair.

:eek:

[ChiBears]

I think the previous post citing how relatively new Kim is to the head coaching position echoes my thoughts on this subject of the coach's actions. I don't much like how MUCH she complains to the refereee, but I think that is more or less born out of the fact that, as a coach, she can't influence the game in too many ways--certainly not like she could as a player. She can call time-outs, she can make substitutions, she can call out plays (execution is solely in the hands of the players!) and she can try to influence the referees. Kim wasn't given the contract she thought she deserved at La Tech after devoting many years to that program. That's got to make her feel like she has something to prove. And when you feel like you have something to prove, sometimes you tend to be over-intense in the areas over which you have control. Truthfully, she seems to handle the players well, she is gracious to the other teams in her interviews (and by far demonstrates the most admiration toward Texas Tech, their program and Marsha Sharp, in particular), she is pretty good about expressing appreciation toward the fans, and if she's going to be too intense in any area to the extent that it's a negative, I'd take the way she reacts toward the refs over any of those last three areas. From what I hear, Pat Summitt used to work the refs pretty well in her younger days; now she just stares lasers through them. Coaching is a physically and emotionally draining career. Give Kim a little more success and time and I'll almost guarantee you that she'll not be expending as much energy working the sidelines as she is now--she'll be directing into maintaining our nationally recognized program!

[Bob_Ballew]

First, I have never read Raider Power or knew anything had been discussed previously. I just thought the "really, really, really, etc" was fairly strong. And I can honestly say that I don't find ANY coaches in the Big XII that I dislike to the point that I would make such comments on a public forum. As far as Baylor's playing style being objectionable, I just don't understand. You obviously don't know coach Kim very well, just like I don't know coach Sharp.
KMR is a great coach and I am sure she could care less what some fans from the opposing teams think about her style of coaching. All I know is, she has built Baylor into a top notch program and I enjoy everything she stands for, family, church, team, community, Baylor and then some. :)

[ChiBears]

I'm not sure how to interpret the word "unethical" in relation to the style of play Baylor brings to the court. That sounds a little like a euphemism for "cheating." The style of play for Baylor was aggressive in the Tech game. But to be honest, our best player is a slight post player whose greatest strength is her speed and jumping ability. Stephanie is undersized (compare her to Greenwalt) and seems to prefer to shoot from the top of the key or the elbow. Our perimeter players are athletic, but again, with the execption of Emily, not particularly stout. A finesse game where we could match up pure athleticism against athleticism would probably favor us. We play aggressively because most teams think the way to beat us is to come at US aggressively. "Mix it up with Baylor and they'll not be able to use their athleticism to their advantage." We almost lost in College Station because the Aggies were hacking, grabbing, going over the back for rebounds and our women spent most of the night frustrated and complaining to the referees. Screens aren't finesse--they're physical. Using bigger, more solid players under the basket and trying to put their bodies on Baylor's players and block them out hard isn't finesse, it's physical. Double and triple teaming our posts with bodies bumping them around as they're trying to make a move isn't finesse, it's physical. And it takes physicality to respond. I, for one, am glad to see that we have learned how to be tougher mentally and to respond in a similarly aggressive manner. (And if unethical means grabbing and holding, then that's the referees issue. Again, the A&M game in College Station was the worst I have ever seen and I didn't leave the arena calling the Aggie players unethical--I did call the referees a few things, though!)
I know the impassioned post was born out of a love for the Lady Raiders and that's great. But realize the Baylor fans are just as impassioned about their team ...

[BEAR SKIN]

Just like in many other cases, we have some fans on Raider Power who may get out of hand or maybe a little off with their thinking. Most of the fans their have pointed out that officiating did not cost Tech the game. Most have given props to Baylor and that they played a good game.

As I said in another post I congratulate Baylor on a tough win.

Now, I don't like KMR and her on court antics. I havent liked them since she became the coach of Baylor. I don't like her methods and in some cases think she has done some unethical things. I think she hurts the game and as I said in an earlier post I do not like the physical game.

Which coach in the Big 12 is on the playing floor and out of the coaches box more than any other coach??

Which coach in the league gets into the officials ears more than any other coach in the league??

I have nothing against Baylor, its fans, or athletes.

Now with that being said it is only my opinion. I am entitled to that as are any of you. I'm sure that some if many out there don't like Marsha Sharp and that is your perogative.

I don't have sour grapes about the loss, Tech just did not play tough enough and knock down shots to win the game.

DBLTFarmer:

We all have opinions and share them on this board. I disagree with most of those you expreessed above -- OK big deal. You don't like her antics, methods, being on the floor and in the officials' ears -- OK big deal; some have even opined that she is a whiner -- OK big deal, its just an opinion that doesn't hurt anyone.

However, when you accuse her of being unethical, I believe that crosses the line, especially without pointing out what ethical conduct has been established and broken.

I may believe a certain men's basketball coach gives players $, or that an attractive female coach sleeps around, but one should not accuse either on any message board without setting forth at least a prima facia case.

By the way, this thread caused me to peruse the Raider Power board. I found it amusing that so many were expressing the same emotions about the officials that I often feel after a close loss (but thankfully keep to myself or office personnell.) I made the trip to Lubbock and at the end, I felt relieved that the Lady Bears were able to pull it out in spite of the horrible calls against BU. Just goes to show that we, as fans don't have as good a view of the play and tend to be overly influenced by the colored glasses we all wear.

PS -- I would like to know what, in your mind constitutes "Most" -- 10 percent?

[swok34]

Do you all recall watching Kim play basketball? There are few and I mean, FEW.....that embellished the absolute passion for playing the game of basketball as Kim did. And basketball back in the late '70's and early '80's was a different game than it is today. We get to watch at least 2 games a week now.......back then, it was the championship game on TV and no more.

I haven't seen a Big XII coach (or others) that don't yank the ear of the ref on more than one occasion. And I've seen more than just Kim be reprimanded by the Big XII for speaking out against the officiating in this league. These coaches learn to walk that fine line about what's acceptable to the Big XII and continue to show their team that they are behind them 100%. We all say ourselves how much the officiating is just poor throughout all of DI.

What Kim has done for Baylor Basketball is just beyond belief.....we've seen by the new coaches who've come into this league how very difficult it is to turn a program around in this conference.

I think going from 2-14 prior to her arrival and 9-7 in her first year is a testament to her value as a coach. Would Baylor be where they are today or where they were in 2000/01 if Kim were a different kind of coach?

I haven't always liked Kim's histronics....but, they seem to be a very effective tool for her team. You know, it's almost as much fun nowadays watching Kim coach as it is watching her team play. And she's learning.....
she's not running victory dances like she did in Stillwater. :p

[TTU79]

Some of my friends think I'm nuts because I've always enjoyed KMR's intensity and enthusiasm. I admire Sonja Hoag also and think she did a great job getting Kim to come to Baylor. However, (yes, the great qualifier) I did think Kim pushed it over the line a couple of times in the Baylor-Tech game. She does a great job in coaching her team and they did beat us. It's time to move on.

[Press]

Some of my friends think I'm nuts because I've always enjoyed KMR's intensity and enthusiasm. I admire Sonja Hoag also and think she did a great job getting Kim to come to Baylor. However, (yes, the great qualifier) I did think Kim pushed it over the line a couple of times in the Baylor-Tech game. She does a great job in coaching her team and they did beat us. It's time to move on.

I agree. I don't get where all these Tech fans all the sudden are shocked by all this physical by Baylor. Anyone that's watched wbb just has to look at the LaTech teams of the past and it's the same. I don't know how many times Tech has played LaTech in the past, but I'm guessing it's not a very good record. Even as much as last year, post KMR's influence, we couldn't hang and they were physical.

Barmore didn't have the sideline antics that KMR does, but the players are pretty much the same. I think everyone will just have to adjust to it because it's not going away as long as she's coaching. Refs aren't going to T her up everytime she's in their ear, it just won't happen.

[AngelSong20]

There are two particular things that really concerned me about KSR's behavior at Tech. They both have to do with her being on the court and out of the box. It seems to me that when an official has to go BEHIND a coach, that is problematic. There were many times when the ball was on the Baylor side of the floor that she was on the floor as well. It would be a T if it was a player, so why is it okay if it's the coach?

The other thing that really bothered me a LOT was when Alesha was trying to shoot a 3 and KSR was standing right there waving her arms at her. That's the kind of thing the players are supposed to do, and I felt it was inappropriate and yes, unethical, for the coach to do so.

I do wonder about one of the things that has been suggested. If the coach is drawing the official's attention to particular places, either to the coach or certain players, I think it very well could serve as misdirection. I don't know if that is the intention or maybe just a side benefit, but it seems quite logical to me. I've been too busy compiling photos of a certain coach standing on the court at various times throughout the game to send to the Big 12 to worry about that aspect, so maybe that can be next.

[DBLTFarmer]

Sorry, but I will not go into the ethics thing. That is something that I will say no more about.

I still don't like KMR and her antics on the floor. At one time I did not care for Sherri Coale's stomping the floor until she blew a kiss to the Tech students in Lubbock. That changed my mind about her.

Womens basketball has not always been a physical game. At one time it was a finesse game. Many coaches still play that type of game and I appreciate those coaches.

Folks it is not about Baylor, it is about KMR.

[BEAR SKIN]

And so myth becomes legend.

"The ref had to run behind her"

"She sure set a nice screen to get Scott open for the 3"

"Did you see her foul Grant on the last shot?"

It sure is great that all the officials in the big 12 are easily distracted (misdirected) by that Baylor Coach.

[Bball Girl]

1st my tougue in cheek comment about Walkaway being an OU fan was in response to Zo's question...which I believe was in response to Walkaway's pickem comment about wanting OU to win and wanting Baylor to lose.

I find Zo's question to be a bit amusing since after the two BU/TTU games last year, he made no bones about rooting against Tech. It goes both ways. We all have teams we root against and teams that we pull for during conference play. Speaking only for myself...come NCAA time I will be pulling for all Big 12 teams.

Baylor does play physical ball as do a number of our teams, including Tech and OU and Texas and others. I didn't see any foul on Erin and the end. I did
see any "screening" by KMR...Scott got herself open and knocked down the shot when it mattered.

I don't have any sour grapes about the loss. Tech deserved to lose that game because Baylor made the play when it mattered...fair and quare. The officiating was no better or worse than any other game I've seen this year. I thought Baylor made better adjustments to the officating than Tech did.

KMR is the REASON I fell in love with WBB and I was thrilled to have her in the Big12. I admire the job she's done at Baylor, she's clearly a terrific teacher of the game and she's made a huge difference at Baylor, for the Big12 and for WBB. I appreciate intensity and fire.

KMR was OUT Of the box and on the court a lot during this game. As a player I would find that distracting. The Webcast was a bit fuzzy but I could clearly see her past the line and out of the box a number of times. That's against the rules! And I did think I saw some one run behind her once and it looked like an official and not a player...however I wasn't sure.

Did that affect the outcome? Heck no. Baylor won the game because of the kids on the court.

As far as Raider Power goes, well it drives me crazy as DbT81 knows and I've told them off more than once. Raider Power has some very good folks, some moderates and a few who bleed red & black and who know zero about anything outside of Tech. But it's no different than any other school board..actually it's a bit less raving than LoboLand.

But I'm a bit frustrated at some of the stereotyping of ALL TECH fans going on here. There are just as many fans of other programs that fit the same stereotype...so please give that a rest.

I don't have sour grapes against Baylor or KSU for that matter. In both cases, the team that made the play won the game and deserved to win it.



I love HoopScoop. I love the camaraderie

[AngelSong20]

Well, now that this has been widely discussed on the Big 12 board, here is a thought. Baylor plays at OU this week, and I know there are OU fans on this board. If the fans were constantly yelling to give her a T every time she gets out of the box (remember the OU asst!) I think she would either stop or the refs would T her up. Either way, we would have a definitive answer that this behavior is not acceptable and it would stop...

[swok34]

If the fans were constantly yelling to give her a T every time she gets out of the box (remember the OU asst!) I think she would either stop or the refs would T her up.

How does one give their full attention to the play going on down on the court AND watch KMR, too......and on top of that, aren't we supposed to be grading Sherri's glares and cleavage showing, too :eek:

That sure is a lot for a fan to do..........when what we want to do most is see a basketball game and root for our team.......and trust me when I say that OUr team needs all the rooting help they can get Wednesday nite.

[Bob_Ballew]

Bballgirl, I did not say Walkaway should not root for OU. I am sure everyone roots for different teams depending upon how it changes the overall standings in the league. That would be the only reason I would root for a specific team against Texas Tech. My comments about sour grapes was due to the comment about wanting to really, really make coach Kim cry. That is lousy sportsmanship in my opinion. There may be several teams or coaches that I may dislike but I know I would regret saying what I really feel in such a public forum. I think I'll just walkaway from this thread altogether. :p

[Gator]

If the fans were constantly yelling to give her a T every time she gets out of the box (remember the OU asst!) I think she would either stop or the refs would T her up.

How does one give their full attention to the play going on down on the court AND watch KMR, too......and on top of that, aren't we supposed to be grading Sherri's glares and cleavage showing, too :eek:

Sorry - I have my own priorities. I want to be at the game when those pants give up. I know her clothes are well made but no seam can withstand the "pressure" the seat of her pants are subjected to. T'were KMR religated to the box at OU, the full range of motion necessary to create the inevitable collapse might not be there and the event might happen in somebody else's house! I want to be able to tell my granschildren that I was there the night...... :D

[DblT81]

ROFL, Gator. That was a humorous mental picture! thanks

[walkaway]

Gator

:D

[DBLTFarmer]

Bill Fennell stayed in the coaches box most of the night. There was that one time................. :D

[NewBearFan2002]

you are a rascal!

MY MIL said the reffing for the ISU game was good. Obvioously they will never get to appear together at another Big XII event :rolleyes:.

[DBLTFarmer]

Believe it or not, I actually thought the officiating favored the Lady Raiders!!!

Who woulda thunk it!! ;)

[NewBearFan2002]

Say it ain't so! :D

[catladyok]

I just love it when a thread starts out hostile and turns out hilarious!

Are y'all talking about the brown leather pants? I think they're stitched with galvanized steel thread. They'll never rip. And if they did, most of us would never notice it (except Gator, who sits behind the visitor's bench). When Baylor comes to Norman there is always so much exciting stuff going on out there on the court that I never notice anything else.

Let the refs worry about KMR and her leaving the box. Certain officials will tolerate it and some won't (such as Jeneane Pence - she gives one warning and that's all!), so it all depends upon who's in charge. BTW, Sherri Coale has been wandering outside her territory a lot this season as well. Shall we place our bets as to who gets T'd up first? Hard choice! I'll bet on Sherri Coale since I'm a homer.

I'm all fired up about the game tonight. I just hope that the Bears will be good sports and allow our girls to take a few shots, that's all!

GO, SOONERS!

[spooky]

Well, CatLady, i guess you called it on Sherri getting the T. Thank goodness for us, cause we might not have pulled it out without it.

I guess Gator will have to wait for his show, cause for whatever reason KMR was positively mellow tonight. Maybe she read all these threads and decided to mess with people's heads by staying in the box all night. She even sat down a time or two :)