OPINIONS

[SwoopesMVP]

To the moderator/site owner and other members of this forum:

If we are not here to post our opinions and thoughts on the games our teams play, then why are we here?

If I see something I don't like...if a player is out of control on the court, I'm going to call them on it. Whether it be good thoughts or bad...I will say what's on my mind.

If you don't like it, don't read my posts and don't reply to them.

This is rediculous! If you want this to be a fru-fru, "everybody loves each other and gets along" website, you picked the wrong sport to follow. This is basketball, not gymnastics.

I am stating my OPINIONS about certain players. Don't like it, well I'm sorry!

[HoopScoop]

Again, everyone must adhere to the following two statements.

"You agree, through your use of this service, that you will not use this board to post any material which is knowingly false and/or defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, or otherwise violative of any law."

AND

"To repeat, this bulletin board will NOT house idiotic, moronic, and otherwise immature postings meant only to verbally abuse others. These messages will be removed. Take this type of garbage elsewhere!"

I was not privy to your original post SwoopesMVP. It was erased before I had a chance to read it. Maybe you would like to post it again and leave it within the thread so I can pass judgement on it. Or maybe you already realize it was not appropriate material to put in this forum because you did delete it.

Right now I simply have to take the word of all those who emailed me and felt your post was definitely offensive and inappropriate. And regardless of how you feel, if you incite such a response from so many people, then I think you should reconsider the tone and language of your original post.

[HoopScoop]

Let me follow that up with saying, I can see how one could talk about dirty play and even call out individual players if they like within posts in this forum. HOWEVER, I do not think you can say much more than you feel it was inappropriate, low, and/or disgusting. You step over the line when you begin to defame a person's character and/or when you become profane or obscene.

I've named names before such as the play of Lynn Pride that I wasn't too fond of. However, I never attacked her or tried to defame her. I simply called dirty, dirty.

We are all adults here. Well, I guess we are. I suppose I can't stop young teenagers from posting what they want until they violate the rules. Bottom-line: adhere to the rules or else.

[SwoopesMVP]

Sorry Hoopscoop...I'm gone. I will no longer post on this Board and I will encourage others with real opinions not to do so as well.

I am a mass communications major and must ask, what would this world be without opinions? BORING and fake! So take your fake website full of love and support for DIRTY players and ...well, you know what to do with it.

[HoopScoop]

So be it. But as I said before, you already placed judgement on yourself by deleting your original post. Obviously you too thought it was over the line.

You are not going to convince one person that we don't have great discussion here about everything related to Big 12 women's basketball. A majority of what we provide here are opinions - our game recaps, which teams or players are playing the best, even almost heated discussion about which coaches are the best or should soon retire. And we've never had any trouble except when it comes to the Tech/UT rivalry and some people who cross the line with regards to that.

It's ashame you feel you can't express your opinions without violating rules.

[mred]

Originally posted by SwoopesMVP:
So take your fake website full of love and support for DIRTY players and ...well, you know what to do with it.

Thank you for illustrating the inflammatory language not permitted on this board. I couldn't have done it better myself.

[kate dawg]

bye bye swoopes. no need to get bent out of shape over that. i must say, if you don't like it, go away. we don't want that kind of behavior here anyway. like the commish says, if you don't like the rules, take off. when you signed on, you agreed to adhere to the rules and in his opinion, which he too is entitled to, he isn't down with the way you talk smack and get personal and make attacks. so peace out.

[This message has been edited by kate dawg (edited 02-07-2002).]

[RaiderPower1]

I do agree to post opinions! But if you violate the rules then you violate the rules. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/confused.gif Like Hoop said, he didn't like the way Lynn Pride played and I don't like the way Kenya Larkin plays. It is JUST an opinion, worth about as much as a German mark in 1923.

[Techie]

i thought swoopes' post was funny, yet very truthful. the game was dirty. majority of it came from larkin. guess i'll never try to vent on here, cuz some people can't deal with it i guess. swoopes' post was the first i've ever commented on in here. some of the others i've read in here haven't been very interesting in comparison. but that's just me. bye swoopes, i'll still visit ya over at raiderpower and we can gripe about those [insert expletive here] players over on that website.

[CyRox98]

If that's the way SwoopesMVP feels about things, I say "good riddance." All you have to do is use a little common sense about what is appropriate for this board and what is not. Doesn't seems that difficult to me to follow the rules. Yeah, we all get bent out of shape now and then, but c'mon, we should all be grown up enough to figure these things out.

[mred]

Originally posted by Techie:
iguess i'll never try to vent on here, cuz some people can't deal with it i guess.

I understand the need to vent, but if you have to be too inflammatory it's usually better to save it for email, face-to-face conversations, or your own team's board (like raiderpower.com). It's hard to maintain peace on a board that supports fans of multiple teams, and the best way to do it is to be more diplomatic on this board than you ordinarily would on a Lady Raiders board (or a Cyclones board or a Sooners board etc. for those who follow other teams).

[RaiderPower1]

Originally posted by mred:
I understand the need to vent, but if you have to be too inflammatory it's usually better to save it for...your own team's board (like raiderpower.com). It's hard to maintain peace on a board that supports fans of multiple teams, and the best way to do it is to be more diplomatic on this board than you ordinarily would on a Lady Raiders board.

Tried it! All it does is make the opposing fans want to read what you wrote on your team's board and then they criticise you on this board for what you said on that board. Do you understand what I am saying?

[Jennifer]

I read swoopes original post, and it went far beyond saying certain players played dirty.

Rules are rules and if you can't or don't want to abide by them, then that's your problem.

I think most people that post here agree that it's nice to have an informative, interesting forum in which to discuss our teams and our conference. Sure, things are going to get heated at times, but to personally attack the players in the way that was done is quite frankly classless and immature.

THank you Chris for providing this forum, and for enforcing the rules!

[This message has been edited by Jennifer (edited 02-07-2002).]

[mred]

Originally posted by RaiderPower1:
Tried it! All it does is make the opposing fans want to read what you wrote on your team's board and then they criticise you on this board for what you said on that board. Do you understand what I am saying?

Yeah. All I can say is if someone takes you to task on this forum for something you said in another forum, then that's their problem. If someone disagrees with something you say on a Lady Raiders board and they don't want to reply to your comment there (which I can understand if they aren't a TT fan and don't want to be ripped to shreds--I've seen it happen on the ISU boards) then they should take it to private email.

I know there is a big difference between "should" and "will".

[carolann]

[Tried it! All it does is make the opposing fans want to read what you wrote on your team's board and then they criticise you on this board for what you said on that board. Do you understand what I am saying?]

Yes, I understand. I haven't been to Raiderpower lately. I learned that lesson. I did go back to see that a lot of the posts following the Tech @ Texas game had been removed by the Raiderpower administrator because of their hateful, vulgar content. I thought twice about coming here today because I suspected there would be a lot of ugly posts.

My original enjoyment of this site has dwindled over the last two seasons because of the continued attacks on the University of Texas program. For most of this time, the few Texas fans have responded in only the mildest manner. When Texas fans recently began to respond more strongly, of course, things only escalated. I'm glad there are other Texas fans on this board now. I don't think I'll be posting much.

[Bball Girl]

It's quite possible for us to criticize or make a negative comment about a player or coach (even our own) without defaming that person. I especially get angry anyone starts (like on RaiderPower) yacking about how a female player looks since I can't imagine that discussion taking place on a board about a men's team.

It doesn't take away from the fact that we have 18-21 year old young women out there mostly playing their hearts out day in and day out. If all of us went out and worked at our jobs or at class with the same devotion and work ethic that our players show night in and night out...the world would be a better place.

I have commented once when I was concerned about a players sportmanship and that set a bunch of stuff off. I wasn't whining, I wasn't venting but actually expressing concern because it bothers me to see that in wbb
Like HoopScoop calling Lynn Pride dirty, I was calling it like I saw it. But I didn't defame her character or her person, call her names or put her down in any way shape or form.

If you watch the players..you'll see them go to war on the court and hug each other off the court. Last night I saw Cook knock White on her butt and then realize that she hit her pretty hard...the look of concern and dismay on her face and her hand reaching down to help Candi up said everything.

I think that's exactly what this is all about. We can battle our opinions fairly and openly, have vigourous debates for an issue or a game... and disagree strongly with each other without putting anyone down, calling names, and defaming anyone's character.

[Bobcat4956]

I will NOT defend my response to Swoopes' original post. I will just say that I took the low road like he/she did and fought back for my team and university. The TT/Texas rivalry is VERY heated, and while I don't particularly like Coach Sharp in some ways, I strongly RESPECT her as a coach. Like all people who post here, I have strong opinions. I have felt the sting of even friends disagreeing with me about Coach Conradt and some have actually gotten mad at me for my opinions. I stand by them. If you don't like Texas that is fine. A lot of people don't. However, I will continue to stand up for the integrity of my team when I think they are in the right. I watched the game on television and it was physical on both sides' part. I took SPECIAL EXCEPTION to the dirty, no class remarks about Coach Conradt, Larkin and Stephens. While I may not agree with all of Coach Conradt's decisions as coach, class is one thing she has never lacked. I also just do not understand the remarks about Stacy Stephens' weight and her needing to get on a treadmill. I have found myself RESPONDING to these attacks several times this year and I might add, have not myself always responded in the most dignified manner. I will try and do better henceforth. But I will continue to defend my team when I feel they are being attacked unfairly.

[horntooter]

Carolann - I hope you continue to post here. I registered, tho fairly late in this season, because the personal attacks directed toward Coach Conradt, the UT players and fans were upsetting and I thought more UT posters who were thoughtful and respectful would counter that. I agree with what Texan said on another thread that the majority of UT/Tech fans do respect one another's programs and are committed to WBB and the Big 12. I've enjoyed reading your contributions and hope you continue to make them.

[two cents]

Bobcat,

I wish you hadn't repeated those remarks about Stephens. I think it was deleted on the other thread and I'd just as soon those remarks remain omitted. I agree that criticism made little sense. I think Stacy played a huge chunk of the double overtime game against K-State. Seems as if she must be in pretty good condition. As I recall, she gobbled up a monster number of rebounds and scored 33 points in that game. Impressive is how I describe it. Nor do I think she is a dirty player. She and Jolee/Tanisha went at each other all night, but it was hard-fought and clean as far as I could tell. The officials determine how much physical contact is to be permitted. The players react to that. SwoopesMVP made some other criticisms that I couldn't comprehend about timeouts and such---anyway---to each their own I suppose.

What is it about Coach Sharp that you don't like? Of course, I understand that fans sometimes don't like the coach of another team for no particular reason other than the rivalry itself. I'm just curious. If you respond in a reasonable tone, I won't take offense.


Carolann,

I second horntooter's request that you keep posting. When I first started reading this board (which I still think is almost too cool for school), I went back and read some old threads from about a year ago. It seems like you have always been a productive contributor. I enjoy input from fans of all schools. I wish there were more contributions from A&M, OSU, MU, and KU fans. I am glad the board has Chipper, kate dawg, unkiemark, and KSURon hoisting the flag for underrepresented schools. Stick around. The Tech-UT series is over; it's water off the back. It does get both sides riled up though, doesn't it?

[KSUron]

Let me tell you a short story. Back when our daughter was in high school I got to the point that I really did not like a player on our own team. I saw her play every home game and a lot of away games. Our daughter was captain of the cheer squad so I even often traveled as an adult chaparone on the team bus. I think I knew more about that player than most people in the stands and maybe more than a lot of the kids in school. To me she was arrogant and inconsiderate and generally a bad sport.

But only later did I find out a lot more. That kid went through heck to play. In addition to a lot of other things she went through she literally threw up before every game out of fear that she would not be able to "perform at an acceptable standard". I later found out that some of that presure came from her dad but I think also some of it came from her. She just HAD to be the best (and almost always was). I was glad I never said anything to her because I sure would have felt like a chump.

The point is that NONE of us (sometimes including teamates) know what is going on in the minds and hearts of the young people who are out there giving us the benefit of their tremendous efforts. Celebrate the good efforts successful or not, and leave the harsh criticism behind. You not only don't know what you are talking about when you attack players or coaches personally, but you can't and don't know the effect it may have on them. OK my soap box license has expired but please do understand that you do NOT know whats in the hearts and minds of those young players. Don't presume to KNOW that a player intended to hurt another. You may be the one doing the hurting.

[Jennifer]

Good points KSURon.

And another thing, a player can have totally different persona on the floor than she does in "real life". Just because someone may be a brute, or arrogant, or whatever on the court doesn't mean they are a bad person.

My best friend was a prime example of this. At 5'8/140, she was a damn good post/forward on a good juco team (could actually play any position on the floor)and probably came across as a bear. Yet in person, she gets upset if she forgets to say thank you for the simplest thing, doesn't have a cuss word in her vocabulary, and teaches Sunday School. So...seems like the players are able to leave it all on the court and then respect each other off of it. We fans should do the same. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

[cctigerfan]

Why read this site?

Because it is unique. We don't have to read the immature postings of people like in other boards. In today's world when someone does something we don't like, it seems we jump to conclusions about their intentions. Like KSUron said, we don't know what is in the minds of those young ladies. This board is great because of its well thought out commentary on womens' basketball. You can go to any other board around and find postings of people degrading others. We don't have that here.

Congratulations to the commish for keeping such a great website and message board. I don't know who your are, but keep up the good work.

[grojc]

CarolAnne

Please Keep posting!!

[swok34]

I hope you contine to post, also, Carolann, if I remember correctly, either you or Bevo were the first Texas posters I recall reading.....and I really, really enjoy your posts..... http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

[metromaniac]

Carolann---

Being a Texan, having attended UT, but having kids at OU is a different perspective. We Texans must realize and understand the inability to understand the Texan persona from others around in contiguous or other locales. In a way, you should just go with the negativism, maybe because of others misunderstandings or jealousy; combined with the knowledge that Texans are taught because their state is so big, diverse, great, etc., that we do often exude a bit of arrogance or confidence that offends the masses.

Keep your head up and keep posting.

Blood is thicker than collegiate loyalty, so now I proclaim----


Go http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/ou.gif ---Beat Texas!!!!!

[Bobcat4956]

Two Cents - The reason I don't particularly care for Sharp is not something I can put on here. It goes back years ago and I don't want to start that up in this forum. It is not appropriate. If you have an email address, I would be happy to give you my thoughts on why and would actually be interested in what you have to say in response. Have a great day!!!

[CyFanRick]

Well, guess it got too hot for swoopes. I personally like this site and have no problem with the rules. I feel opinions can be expressed appropriately without attacking. HoopScoop, you run a good site. Keep up the good work.

[Bevo]

Originally posted by carolann:
My original enjoyment of this site has dwindled over the last two seasons because of the continued attacks on the University of Texas program. For most of this time, the few Texas fans have responded in only the mildest manner. When Texas fans recently began to respond more strongly, of course, things only escalated. I'm glad there are other Texas fans on this board now. I don't think I'll be posting much.

Carolann, I feel your pain. There have been a couple of occasions which have caused me to want to throw in the towel and walk away from these discussions as well. Last year, when the team was struggling through the injuries and this year's current tough stretch are two examples. On both of these occasions, there have been attacks and unfounded accusations against the UT players and coaches from certain factions. It makes you think, "why bother?".

Both years, the intensity of these attacks has reached a peak after the game in Lubbock. Last year, when the Horns won, you could almost explain it away as frustration and disappointment by certain Tech "fans". But this year, Tech WON but the attacks are even more personal, pointed, and vitrolic. Here are two observations that I have:

1) As I stated, the attacks and accusations come full force after the games in Lubbock. That makes it easier to throw out questionable accusations because there are fewer Longhorn fans on hand to witness the game in person and therefore be able to refute them.
2) The players most viciously attacked are Stacy Stephens and Kenya Larkin. Coincidentally, these two tend to have great games and be very effective players against Tech. Hmm...

I have been intentionally silent during the fray this week, not wanting to be one adding fuel to the fire. The majority of Tech fans here are first-class. Dblt is an example of a fan who makes intelligent points, uses stats to back up those points, and supports the Lady Raiders in a positive manner - win or lose. There are many others as well.

The tactics of SwoopesMVP, RaiderPower1, and the newcomer Techie are finally beginning to backfire on them, as the tide of opinion is overwhelmingly against having this type of discussion here at Hoopscoop. I think the forum is going through some growing pains. More and more people are catching on and signing up each season (each week, even!). Obviously, there are many positive things about this growth. However, there are always bad apples. It is important to be vigilant in enforcing the rules in order to keep the whole barrell from spoiling. I appreciate the stand that Hoopscoop has taken this week in regard to the rules.

BTW, Carolann, hang in there! I always enjoy your opinions. You tend to not let the ups and downs get to you as much as I do. And I think the pendulum can and will swing up again for the 'Horns before this season is over. Like all of the Big XII teams, we need to be thinking "SAN ANTONIO"!!



[This message has been edited by Bevo (edited 02-08-2002).]

[Hazel]

I want all of the Texas fans to know that some or probably most of us Tech supporters thoroughly enjoy the friendly, healthy part of the rivalry between our schools. I personally am saddened by the vicious attacks I have seen posted here and on other boards and have stated my opinion in those places. I am coming out to say that I am related to one of those players and have learned to consider the source and not be moved by personal attacks. I like, respect, and admire Jody Conradt and have followed the careers of many of her current players for years. I hope they do not read the ugly remarks. They are great players and it has been fun to watch their development over the years. Yes, they are intense on the court. So are the Tech players. The games are competitive and fun to watch, and one never knows who will prevail till the final buzzer. What more could a fan want? I can tell you that the ladies respect each other and will go after it on the court but will graciously congratulate each other after the game and move on. We should display the same class. I also enjoy this board and hope those of you from UT will continue to participate and realize that a few do not represent the majority. Finally, I appreciate the integrity of those site administrators who keep everything in check. Thank you all for your time.

[Texas]

The subject matter of our basketball discussions is worth something. They are worth what you make it worth. Take it how you want to, but don't tell me they aren't interesting since we have various amounts of people posting on here. I think everyone would agree that all is well here! Have fun at your board.


The Big XII conference is getting better every game!

[Cycurl714]

As a high school student and basketball player I see and hear a lot of cruel and vulgar thing everyday. This board is one place I can go to for an intelligent discussion. I can understand being upset in the heat of the moment, but in no way do I condemn the remarks made by Swoopes. Think before you speak. As one of my teacher's says," Don't write anything that you're not willing to show your Grandmother."

[This message has been edited by Cycurl714 (edited 02-09-2002).]

[RaiderPower1]

Here's one for you Bevo: http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/wink.gif

[Amanda]

Chris, from one board admin to another, I have always appreciated this site because it is truly a place where fans from all schools can come and talk basketball without all the extra BS. I know sometimes it is tough to keep things on track but you do a great job. I don't think SwoopesMVP could be further off base with his comments about the site. For that matter, I think he is off base with his comments about Larkin and Stephens.

I have seen a few people comment on RaiderPower.com - some of you know that is my site, others may not know and may not care. At any rate - as soon as I saw some of the comments about Stephens and Larkin I deleted them. I also made a couple of posts as "Staff" telling people to lay off. We allow a little more smack talk than this site, but in general I try to make sure any comments are directed at the kids as a player, not as people. I think some fans of Tech hate UT so much it really hinders their ability to watch a game and see things for what they are. I can honestly say I don't HATE any Big 12 team, and I consider myself to be pretty objective when watching the games. More than that, I know many current and former players from different schools and I don't think it is cool when people say rude things about 18-22 year old kids that they have never even met.

Anyway - running a site like this one, or a site like RP (we had 2 million page views in Jan. and over 120k on national signing day for football...and we have about 3500 registered users) is a lot of work. I appreciate all the stuff Chris does on this site especially because he isn't getting paid for what he does. Its all about giving Big 12 WBB fans a place to talk.

Chris - you are the man.