Texas Tech 78 - ISU 65

[RaiderPower1]

Huge win for the Lady Raiders. Huge. Amber Tarr was on fire today absolutely draining every big shot she had to make. Candi White stepped up also with two big three pointers early. Natalie Ritchie also contributed to the new school record of 12 three pointers. Tech has also written into the record book that they have won at every place in the Big XII now. No other school has done it (I don't think). Wow...huge win! Next up is OSU. Go Lady Raiders!!

[grojc]

Great win Raiders. Very impressive.

[CyFanRick]

Congratulations Tech.
Tech played their "A" game today and ISU didn't quite make it.

[RaiderPower1]

ISU fans at the game:

Did ya'll notice if Cisti Greenwalt was on the bench or anything. She didn't even play and we (tech fans) don't know why she didn't play. I realize you all may not know what she looks like but she is a 6'5" skinny anglo girl with usually a red ribbon in her hair somewhere. I was just wondering if she was suited out or what...any clue?

[CyFanRick]

RaiderPower,
I think that she was there. During warm ups, there was a player a quite a bit taller than the others, but she didn't play. Not sure why not.

[Bball Girl]

In the postgame, Coach Weese said they went with a smaller, but stronger lineup to contain the ISU 3 point shooters. I assume that and the fact the Cisti had some trouble hanging onto the bench kept her out of the game today.

WCH.com said we don't have depth...yeah right. We had 4 players in double figures and team that came ready to play the game. 12 three pointers...57%

Tarr was superb. And Candi White is such a warrior.

It sounded like Tech frustrated Welle some, but she still managed 26 pts and 15 rebounds. Gahan and Wilson also had good games...Gahan pulled down so many defensive boards.

ISU outrebounded Tech 45 to 30, but the 20 turnovers really hurt ISU. Tech only had 9...but that dang FT shooting continues to haunt us.

[Bball Girl]

Ooops...that's Cisti had trouble hanging onto the ball against BU...

[JK]

Great win for Tech! Listened to it on the net. This was a much needed victory and, couple with the big win over Baylor, it puts the Lady Raiders right back on track. I think the game at Texas showed Marsha's gang just how good they still are. Maybe there was a sense of instability/uncertainty after losing Pierson and Brown. Even though they lost at the Erwin Center, they really played well. I wouldn't call this a "down year" in Lubbock whatsoever. There are some helluva good teams in this conference! Hey people, it ain't over 'til it's over. Again, great game (and great week) for Tech. Job well done!!!!

[ISUbballfan]

Good game Tech. I'm impressed you have about 40 - 50 fans at the game. How far is it for you to come to Ames?

[RaiderPower1]

A LONG WAY! But like they say...Tech fans travel very well.

[ISUbballfan]

They got to see their team play a good game. I would be interested to hear what they thought of the refs. Cyclone fans thought they were awful but they didn't have any difference in the outcome of the game. As hot as Cyclones were shooting Tuesday they were cold today.

[schooner2]

Originally posted by ISUbballfan:
They got to see their team play a good game. I would be interested to hear what they thought of the refs. Cyclone fans thought they were awful but they didn't have any difference in the outcome of the game. As hot as Cyclones were shooting Tuesday they were cold today.

Figures. OU wil always get ISU's best shot. Sure hope OU plays ISU again in Kansas City. And I just found out this week I'm going to K.C. for all of the tourney. I'm phsyched! Can't wait.

Wow, great win Tech. I'm very impressed. Notice the teams that will rise to the top of this conference this season will be those with great road wins. And who are they?:

Texas: @Colorado (also beat NU, OSU on road)
Oklahoma: @Baylor, @Texas Tech
Kansas State: @ISU (also beat TAMU on road)
Texas Tech: @ISU

Am I missing others?

[schooner2]

One disturbing thing probably for ISU fans is: in the losses they have, their best players are still playing okay to good games. Almost as if they really need contributions from others if they are to have success. Plus they need to keep their turnovers under 20 and shoot near 50%. Their only loss they did this in was the one point loss to Texas where they still had 20 turnovers to Texas' 11. Which gave Texas many, many more shots.

I just don't think you can point to one of the big 3, Welle, Wilson, and Gahan and say since they had a bad game, ISU lost. Gahan's had a couple mediocre performances but not bad. Today she only had 8 points, but she did have 15 rebounds.


[This message has been edited by schooner (edited 01-19-2002).]

[mred]

ISU had no bench points, which isn't a rare occurance for them. The shocking thing is that not a single bench player even took a shot.

[This message has been edited by mred (edited 01-19-2002).]

[RaiderPower1]

Hey mred...did you get to listen to the game on the net with Texas Tech's announcers? They get really emotional, but Melissa Maines is a big homer. Ryan, IMO, gives a pretty good call of the game.

[ISUbballfan]

Not only do we not get many points from the bench we only have 3 starters that score if Tracy doesn't go into one of her no shoot games. She is such a great defender that sometimes she doesn't shoot.

[mred]

Originally posted by RaiderPower1:
Hey mred...did you get to listen to the game on the net with Texas Tech's announcers? They get really emotional, but Melissa Maines is a big homer. Ryan, IMO, gives a pretty good call of the game.

I only listen to the opposing radio broadcast when ISU has technical difficulties. This was the case in the Texas and KSU (I think) games. I think most of the announcers around the Big XII are pretty good.

[DblT81]

Originally posted by ISUbballfan:
Good game Tech. I'm impressed you have about 40 - 50 fans at the game. How far is it for you to come to Ames?

Tech charters a plane and arranges travel packages for fans to travel with the team, including game tickets, hotel and meals. The radio announcer mentioned that it took about 1 hr plus 30-45 min to fly to Ames from Lubbock on the charter. For fans to fly commercial would have taken much longer and taken more overnight stays. That's why there were so many fans. Melissa Maines does commentary on the radio and she is in charge of the fan's travel arrangements.

A funny thing happened to her in December in New Jersey. She was outside Rutger's arena handing out game tickets to the Tech fans that had traveled with the team. A policeman thought she was scalping tickets, which is illegal, and she thought for awhile she might get arrested. It was especially funny because the huge arena only had only 2,000-3,000 fans in it for the game so it would have been crazy for fans to buy tickets from a scalper.

Now that ISU and Tech are done, I sure hope the Cyclones win all the rest. They need to hold onto a top 16 team position so they get home games in the first rounds of the NCAA tourney.

[RaiderPower1]

Originally posted by DblT81:
A funny thing happened to her in December in New Jersey. She was outside Rutger's arena handing out game tickets to the Tech fans that had traveled with the team. A policeman thought she was scalping tickets, which is illegal, and she thought for awhile she might get arrested.


I thought that was pretty funny myself. And it was miserably cold with wind chills in the negatives I think they said.

[ISUbballfan]

That is great for the fans and the team. I know that different times the ISU announce will mention about Iowa State fans that are at away games but they are usally parents of players or ISU fans that live in the area. It is so expensive to fly out of the Des Moines airport. Ames only has a small airport.

[RaiderPower1]

I wish they would extend the charter groups to more than just conference games. At least to close games to home like the UNM game this season (I went to it in Albuquerque on my own) or when the team goes to Dallas or Houston. They would have a great following from those cities as well.

[ISUbballfan]

The 2 rows behind the visting team is saved for their fans and it is usally almost empty. Today it was full then when Tech was leaving the floor after warmups before the game we saw a bunch in the balcony. I was surprised to see so many fans for a game so far away from home.

[This message has been edited by ISUbballfan (edited 01-19-2002).]

[This message has been edited by ISUbballfan (edited 01-19-2002).]

[DblT81]

Originally posted by ISUbballfan:
I would be interested to hear what they thought of the refs. Cyclone fans thought they were awful but they didn't have any difference in the outcome of the game.

For those of us listening on the radio, it is hard to tell if the officials are bad. Ryan Hyatt doesn't get on the officials generally so its hard to tell. If they make a really bad call, he will be sarcastic or make a joke. The only one I remember today was when the officials called a tie ball. Ryan said something like: That's funny, they called a tie ball and not a single person ever had any kind of control of the ball. About the time that sentence left his mouth, you could hear a huge booo from the ISU fans, apparently they thought something similar and were upset because Tech had the possession arrow.

[ISUbballfan]

I think the call that started the fan displeasure was when ISU had a fast break going and something was wrong with Amber Tarr's knee and the ref stopped the game so she could checkout.

[cycofan]

At the risk of sounding like a disgruntled Iowa State fan, this league has a serious officiating problem. I have been to all three home Big 12 games in Ames, and not seen a single good officiating crew. The calls have been equally bad for both teams.

It seems as though the level of play in the Big 12 has passed by some of these officials. They call the tiniest hand check on the perimiter while the post players are mugging each other underneath.

Regarding yesterday's game in Ames, yes the call that really got the crowd upset was an ISU fast break and they stopped the game for Amber Tarr to check out with an injury.

What are other opinions? What has been the level of officiating at your games?

Texas Tech had a great game plan, and played a great game yesterday. The ladies played with a lot of class in a hostile environment. Best of luck the rest of the way Lady Raiders!

[CyFanRick]

CyCoFan,
I agree with your assessment of the officiating in the Big 12, it has been terrible. But it is nothing new to the players and coaches. The officiating has left much to be desired for the past several years. The coaches and players have learned to adjust to the poor officials and play "around" them. Others may have, but I have not seen a game that has been decided by the officials (although I am sure there are some). Being a major ISU fan, I would love the opportunity to blame the losses on the refs, but simply can't. The losses they have endured this year have been due to play, mainly excessive turnovers, many unforced as well as the quality of the teams they have been playing. The big 12 is a tough league with many good/great teams. May they continue to improve and keep beating the tar out of each other for 40 minutes at a time.
Go http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/isu.gif

[cycofan]

I absolutely agree. I hope my post was not interpretted as blaming the officials for our losses. I only think that if we are one of the premier women's conferences, then we should have better officiating overall.

It is frustrating to watch poor officiating, and distracts from the high level of play throughout the conference.

[DblT81]

I'm not disputing the call regarding Tarr's injury. I didn't see it and have no opinion. I was just wondering what are the rules regarding stopping the game for an injury so I looked them up and thought I'd post what I found:

__________________________________
RULE 5 Scoring and Timing Regulations
Section 9. Stopping Game and Shot Clocks
The game clock and shot clock, if running, shall be stopped when an official . . .
Art. 1. S i g n a l s :
a . A foul.
b . A held ball.
c . A violation.
Art. 2. Stops play:
a . Because of an injury.
b . To confer with the scorers, timer or shot-clock operator.
c . Because of unusual delay in a dead ball being made live.
d . For any emergency.
Art. 3. Grants a player’s visual or oral request for a timeout, …..
Art. 4. Grants a coach’s request for a timeout, ….
Art. 5. Recognizes a request by a coach …
Art. 6. Responds to the official scorer’s signal …..
Art. 7. Suspends play immediately when necessary to protect an injured player .
A.R. 6. When an official on his or her own initiative takes a timeout to protect an injured player, should a timeout be charged to the team? R U L I N G : After calling the timeout, the official should ask the player if the player desires a timeout. When the player does not, play should be resumed immediately. When the player is not ready to resume play immediately and is not replaced until at least the next opportunity to substitute after the game clock has started, one timeout shall be charged to the injured player’s team. No official has the authority to charge a timeout to himself or herself. (See Rule 5-9.2.a.)
Art. 8. Suspends play after the ball is dead or controlled by the injured player’s team or when the opponents complete a play after a player is injured.
a . A play shall be completed when a team loses immediate control (including trying for goal) or withholds the ball from play by ceasing to attempt to score or advance the ball to a scoring position.
Art. 9. Suspends play when a player incurs a wound that causes bleeding or has blood on his or her body caused by blood from another player’s wound. The official shall stop the game at the earliest possible time and instruct the player to leave the game for attention by medical personnel.
a . A player with blood on his or her uniform shall have the uniform evaluated by medical personnel. When medical personnel determines that the blood has not saturated the uniform, the player may immediately resume play without leaving the game. When medical personnel determines that the blood has saturated the uniform, the affected part of the uniform shall be changed before the player shall be permitted to return.
A.R. 7. While Team A is dribbling, the referee notices blood on A1’s game jersey. The referee blows the whistle to stop play. A1 goes to the bench and medical personnel (a) deter-mine that the game jersey is not saturated with blood or (b) determine that the game jersey is saturated with blood. R U L I N G : In (a), A1 may remain in the game without penalty. In (b), A1 shall leave the game and change to a blood-free game jersey. A1 shall remain on the sideline until the next opportunity to substitute or Team A may use a time-out to allow A1 time to change the game jersey. A1 may return to the game at the end of the timeout.

----------------------------------

It appears that officials must use some judgement as to whether they need to protect an injured player. I wonder if officials have been given any guidance by the NCAA regarding knee injuries due to all the ACL injuries that have been happening.

[ISUbballfan]

cycofan & CyFanRick I agree with you. The people sitting around me at the game were so disgusted at the refs. Most were wondering if the other conferences had refs as bad as what we have had this year. For awhile it seemed like 2 of them were trying to out do the other. One would make a call at one end of the floor them the other would call something at the other end and then look at the other one like top that.

[mred]

Originally posted by DblT81:
I'm not disputing the call regarding Tarr's injury. I didn't see it and have no opinion. I was just wondering what are the rules regarding stopping the game for an injury so I looked them up and thought I'd post what I found:
Art. 7. Suspends play immediately when necessary to protect an injured player .


I also didn't see it, but Art. 7 only applies if the continuation of play puts the player at risk, such as when a player has a life-threatening injury and requires immediate attention.

[#1Big12Fan]

It was far from being a life threatening injury....or even an injury. She simply bent down at mid court and held her knee for a few seconds, while ISU was on a fast break...pretty questionable call, IMO.

[RaiderPower1]

Maybe the ref was going to call it earlier but couldn't get his whistle up quick enough. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/wink.gif You know the refs have showed to be inconsistent this season. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

[ISUbballfan]

Today I was watching the end of the Minnesota/Wisconsin game. One of the Wisconsin players went out of bounds at the end of the court and got hurt. She was off the floor and the training staff was looking at her. A foul had been calledd on another Wisconsin player causing her to foul out. When the sub came in the refs had the ball put in play. Then didn't even know there was an injuried player.

[BigXII]

They said Tech made 12 of 21 threes, but from where I was sitting I think 5 of them hit the bottom of the net. Those cheating refs counted them anyway! If you subtract those 15 points we would have won. CHEATERS!!!

[RaiderPower1]

Tounge in cheek right? I hope. hahaha.

[RaiderPower1]

Hey...whatever happened to UCONNRulz??

[DblT81]

Originally posted by mred:
I also didn't see it, but Art. 7 only applies if the continuation of play puts the player at risk, such as when a player has a life-threatening injury and requires immediate attention.

You must be an official and know how Art. 7 should be interpreted, because it doesn't say anything about life threatening injuries. It just says if play needs to be stopped to protect the player. I don't know that I've seen many life threatening injuries on the basketball court. Seen a head bang the floor or other bad falls and severe knee injuries, but don't think any of them were life threatening.

[cycofan]

My apologies for starting all of this! I didn't intend for one of my first posts to start an uprising!

Hopefully there are better days ahead for ISU fans!

[swok34]

I don't think I've ever seen them stop play for an injured player......
even laying out on the court on the other end....

I listened on the radio to a referee something....supervisor? and he mentioned that referee's are contracted, they don't belong to a particular conference anymore...wonder what the Big XII pays a referee? This guy was mainly "college men's basketball" and I think the better you are, the more you make..
one guy who calls a lot of the men's Big XII games makes $850 per game, but he was one of the "top-level" that had been at it a long time..

I think a few of the refs that we see in the Big XII skipped summer camp the last few years, maybe???? I saw a couple on TV today at the SMU/LA Tech game, that called a lot of Big XII game's last year.....and I really, really don't like either of them......


[This message has been edited by swok34 (edited 01-20-2002).]

[KSUron]

Originally posted by cycofan:
My apologies for starting all of this! I didn't intend for one of my first posts to start an uprising!

Hopefully there are better days ahead for ISU fans!

Not to worry cycofan. It was a good post and on this board even gripes about the refs are done at a MUCH more intelligent level than you usually see. Nice work all.

And don't worry about ISU. With the program you have the rest of us have to worry about ISU.

[ISU3PointLand]

Okay, I'm jumping into the fray again on this one (big surprise). I honestly believe that with better and more consistent officiating, the game yesterday would have been different. I AM NOT saying that ISU would have won, Tech played a hell of a game and deserved to win. But I do look at two instances in the game that DID make a difference.

Not once, but TWICE during the game, an official blew the whistle on a defensive foul against Tech, and then proceeded to change the blocking calls to charges against ISU. I have seen the occasional occurance where an official will make a call and then have another official who had a better view come over and correct the call, but these fouls were switched by the signaling offical. I cannot understand how an offical makes one call and then a few seconds later thinks about it and changes his mind.

Also, I realize that physical play is becoming the norm in college basketball, but the post play from both sides seemed to be VERY physical and not much was being called. How long will it be before punches will be allowed?

It was said in an earlier post that poor officiating has become commonplace and that the teams have to learn to play around it. I will grant the argument that on occasion an official will have a bad game and that calls will be missed. But we, AS FANS, have to stand up and say ENOUGH IS ENOUGH. Coaches and players have their hands tied when it comes to criticizing poor officiating, but we do not.

I am tired of seeing our game slowly eaten away because of poor officiating. There are good officials in this game, but when officials are consistently bad, it is our duty to speak up about it. Where is the accountablity in officiating? How do bad refs seem to be constantly rewarded by being given high profile games to oversee? The Big XII has even gone so far as to remove any link to it's league offices to contact them concerning officiating.

I know this post is rambling, so I will surmise it to say. We, as fans of Big XII basketball, have to speak up and say give us officiating worthy of our league. Then, and only then, can we truly call ourselves one of the premiere leagues in the country. We are a great league, we deserve great officiating.

I will contact the ISU basketball office to try to find out who is in charge of officiating and how to contact them. I will post that information as soon as possible. I encourage you to join me in writing or emailing the appropriate person to express our concerns on this subject.

[mred]

Originally posted by DblT81:
You must be an official and know how Art. 7 should be interpreted, because it doesn't say anything about life threatening injuries. It just says if play needs to be stopped to protect the player. I don't know that I've seen many life threatening injuries on the basketball court. Seen a head bang the floor or other bad falls and severe knee injuries, but don't think any of them were life threatening.


Right, and I've never seen an official stop play for an injury when the opposing team had the ball in a fast break opportunity. The rules make it clear that play will not be stopped for an injury in such a situation unless the player is in some sort of real peril.

[two cents]

Originally posted by mred:
Right, and I've never seen an official stop play for an injury when the opposing team had the ball in a fast break opportunity. The rules make it clear that play will not be stopped for an injury in such a situation unless the player is in some sort of real peril.



Actually, I've seen this happen quite a few times in both the men's and women's game in recent years. Home crowds always boo if they're team is in transition when it happens (I've booed myself). I guess it's in the discretion of the official, some are more prone to stop play than others. Stopping play seems more common in recent years. Maybe too many players tried to hobble back in transition defense risking further injury. Also, my subjective impression is that play is rarely stopped if an easy lay-up awaits at the other end; whereas, if the transition defense is in good order potentially able to stop a fast break, play is usually stopped. I have no idea what is applicable to the game Saturday afternoon. I think the Tech radio guy was surprised to see the stoppage, so maybe it was a wide-open break.



[This message has been edited by two cents (edited 01-21-2002).]

[two cents]

I understand Iowa State played some man to man defense in the game Saturday, and that Tech was able to make some 3's even against the man. "Seeing" the game on the radio, it was difficult to discern how often or for how long ISU played man D. Could anybody who was at the game offer up impressions about the defenses ISU played and how TT handled them?

[ISUbballfan]

Originally posted by two cents:
I understand Iowa State played some man to man defense in the game Saturday, and that Tech was able to make some 3's even against the man. "Seeing" the game on the radio, it was difficult to discern how often or for how long ISU played man D. Could anybody who was at the game offer up impressions about the defenses ISU played and how TT handled them?

If I remember correctly the man defense wasn't played untill the last 3-4 minutes of the game. Pressure on inbounding plays and trapping to try and steal the ball. I don't remember Tech having any problem with it because then ISU had to start fouling to try and get the ball back.

[mred]

Originally posted by two cents:
I have no idea what is applicable to the game Saturday afternoon. I think the Tech radio guy was surprised to see the stoppage, so maybe it was a wide-open break.

I'll make it clear that I also didn't see the game, but Coach Fennelly was fuming when they stopped play, as were the ISU fans at the game. The radio broadcasters couldn't believe it either, but they are ISU broadcasters so take that with a grain of salt.

This is just one play and it isn't that important. The officials certainly didn't lose this game for ISU. ISU and TT worked together to make that happen.

[cyfanatic]

Well stated, MRED.

[ISUbballfan]

I was at the game. I don't know what happened to Amber Tarr. She was still on the Tech end of the court and everyone else was at the ISU end of the court. She was rubbing her knee and walking toward the Tech bench. The ref blew the play dead. I have been at games and a player is down on the court in pain and nothing until their team gets the ball.

[Bball Girl]

Last yr against KSU, Amber dislocated her kneecap and was out for a few games.

A couple of weeks ago, she tweaked the same knee in practice, came down pretty hard and has been wearing the brace ever since. In the ISU game, she "banged" knees with someone and we were all worried that her kneecap had gone out again...according to TTU, it moved again some, so they pulled her out and taped it heavily under the brace.

I don't know what the official rule is...but I've seen it both ways...I've seen the ref stop the game and I've seen it continue for a bit. Regardless of whose fast break it was...many other "coulds" could have happened...Tech could have stolen the ball and back down the court everyone could have come with Amber hobbling in the way. If I recall ISU scored after Amber was pulled out and the game resumed.

Frankly, I don't want anyone hurt further at any time on the court. I can't recall ever booing when a game has been stopped because of a player injury.

[CyRox98]

It was the first time in my experience in 5 years of going to basketball games at Hilton that play has been stopped for an injured player. I have seen many times where someone is left laying on the floor as play continues at the other end of the court - situations where you'd think they WOULD stop the game, but didn't. As for the booing, don't believe for a second that it was in any way directed towards Tech or the player in question. It was out of total frustration with the refs and the pathetic job they were doing.

Iowa State fans are a good and knowledgable group and know when a call is right or not. Of course there are always fans who will boo every call that goes against ISU, but they are a small minority. Anyone who has been to a game at Hilton can validate that. I believe this differs from many other arenas (not necessarily Big 12 buildings) where the fans either a) know nothing about the sport and just sit there like they were watching television or b) boo every single call made against their team regardless of whether or not it was right.

[This message has been edited by CyRox98 (edited 01-21-2002).]

[cycofan]

On a lighter note, I was curious if the radio commentators noted when Coach Fennelly went down in a heap on the sidelines. It was in the first half. He was squatting by the bench when Jia Perkins came off a screen right at him. He feel flat on his backside, and his face turned bright red. The girls on the bench were trying really hard not to laugh out loud!

This was before the injury incident, and even the coach had a chuckle at his own expense!

[RaiderPower1]

That's funny...our announcer didn't say anything about it. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

[dem]

Originally posted by two cents:
I understand Iowa State played some man to man defense in the game Saturday, and that Tech was able to make some 3's even against the man. "Seeing" the game on the radio, it was difficult to discern how often or for how long ISU played man D. Could anybody who was at the game offer up impressions about the defenses ISU played and how TT handled them?

One thing that I can say is that Tarr and Ritchie hit some amazing three's against very intense, in-your-face defense. I know that Fennelly was upset about some shooters that got left open, but several times I was thinking to myself, "good defense, that's the way to stop them" and then BAM -- they just tossed them right in, nothing but net. It reminded me a lot of Stacy Frese's game against Nebraska a couple or three years ago. She was unstoppable. They practically backed her into mid-court, right in her shorts, and she would step back and swish another. Eight for eight on threes that day, tied the NCAA record. Now I know what Nebraska felt like. Ugh. Very unpleasant.