KSU/Purdue

[Jennifer]

Wow, no comments thus far?

I didn't watch the whole game, just bits and pieces. Purdue looked pretty good and physical.
KSU's offense looked very out of sync (again, didn't see the whole game).

I didn't see enough of KSU's freshman to comment, either.

I'm just waiting to see what those of you who are better informed have to say. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

I have read on some other boards that to many, Ohlde was very unimpressive. Of course, it's only 1 game and those of us who follow the Big 12 know what she's capable of.

[swok34]

I saw a lot of the game, but more of the 1st half than the 2nd half...Purdue came out and played very physical. I really think Twiggy McIntyre is going to be good...
I thought for her, being a freshman really showed.

KSU wasn't hitting high percentage on their 3's early in the game and that was killing them, IMO, because they weren't looking to get the ball into the post until late first half/2nd half. Nicole Ohlde sat with 3 fouls late in the first half...
and I think she may have sat a great deal of the second half.
I know Shanda Murdoch was in the game late, but I was piddling around the house and wasn't being as attentive as I was to the first half.

[This message has been edited by swok34 (edited 11-17-2003).]

[catladyok]

Purdue just seemed to play with a lot more confidence than K-
tate. In fact, I haven't seen the Boilermakers with this much poise in a long, long time. Maybe that threw the Wildcats into some type of panic. Megan Mahoney got hit in the face and somehow wound up with a gash above her left eye which bled like all get-out. She had to leave the game for a while, and Purdue took advantage of that. I was afraid that she was going to stay out but no, she eventually got back into the game and the Cats started chipping away at the lead. They dang near won it, too, which makes it so frustrating. Purdue got on a roll during the last 3 minutes and KSU kept missing shots. Sure, Purdue was forcing them to take some bad shots, but they were missing some fairly easy ones(for them) and that caused them to lose the game. And it certainly didn't help having Nicole Ohlde get into early foul trouble. If she hadn't spent so much time on the bench I feel fairly certain that KSU would have won that game.

Purdue was all over Kendra Wecker, which is understandble, and they managed to keep the ball away from her a lot. So you gotta give 'em credit for that. Hey, did you hear Coach Curry's remark about Wecker? It was really cute. She even threw in a 'dadgum' and sounded just like a HoopScooper!

I was really proud of Twiggy McIntyre. She played rather well for a freshman and I think she's going to be a big asset to the team.

If KSU gets another crack at Purdue during the tournament the outcome is probably going to be MUCH different.

[ChipperF1]

It wasn't so much that Ohlde was "unimpressive" Emily Heikes was physical with her and didn't back down, plus she had a backcourt that won perimeter superiority early and often against KSU.

Purdue had a specific game plan. They went man pressure. They attacked on offense. They knew they had a player-for-player advantage on first step engagements and they played the advantage and it worked. Kansas State was a step behind most of the game defensively and offense suffered when KSU did not attack as much as their offense was more outside shooting.

On the upside for the Wildcats. I like Twiggy "Ell" McIntyre. She was aggressive, she has skills and she has a court sense. She just needs live-fire experience, but in 20-minutes she showed me enough to think that the ball coach needs to play her more and Chelsea Domenico less. When Twiggy was in there KSU was making plays. Her slashes opened up Koehn and her and Wecker have a nice two-man game in the making. Wecker had a little more space to operate when #15 was at the controls, plus ol' #53 looks quicker and more sure of herself handling the ball than she did in the past. Wecker hitting the jump stop off the dribble was something to see. Her game as gone up a level.

I have a feeling that on those other boards, people are looking at more at KSU's ranking and ranking on them than just giving Purdue their credit. The Boilermakers get overlooked a lot because they don't have a "star" player. They have Erica Valek, who is a fine point guard but is overshadowed by flashier player in her league. Shereka Wright is a legit All-American candidate, but she just lacks the buzz the surrounds some of the other candidates.
Purdue is a tough team with talented players who play well together. Kristy Curry put together a smart game plan and the players executed it. Give credit to that.

Kansas State got bit by the same problem that's been biting them for the last two seasons. They have a very good starting five, but they have a shaky #6, #7 and #8. The drop off from starter to reserve is more common with a team that is a tier down, not a Final Four contender.

KSU at #5 was an oversell. Purdue confirmed that Sunday night.





[This message has been edited by ChipperF1 (edited 11-17-2003).]

[Big12Fan]

The commentators kept saying that K-State was just standing around and on the whole that was true. Last year the club had a reputation of having a weakness of being soft on defense. I hope this doesn't stay true. Wecker and Koehn shot well but no one else seemed around on offense. This must have been Ohlde's worst game ever. She was called for a couple of very marginal fouls and that seemed to do her in. The Purdue center who was four inches shorter seemed to control her the rest of the time they were matched. I was impressed by both McIntyre and Murdoch (played limited minutes but made a couple of baskets) as players who could contribute this year.

[Michael]

I disagree with the marginal calls on Ohlde. The over the back call was baltant, and the two attempted bumps out of bounds on Valek were also very obvious, and quite stupid for a senior center to commit. Her other foul I believe was a hack, but I can't remember for sure. Had the officials been more aggressive on calling over the back, she would have fouled out early IMHO.

Michael

[catladyok]

I can understand why Nicole Ohlde took a chance on the shot block from behind. She's tall and she is often able to bat the ball out of a players hands from behind without fouling her. But this time she gambled and lost. It's always an iffy move even for a great player like her.

[ChipperF1]

"If KSU gets another crack at Purdue during the tournament the outcome is probably going to be MUCH different."

True. Purdue might win by more than 10.

[This message has been edited by ChipperF1 (edited 11-17-2003).]

[catladyok]

Chipper, your pessimism/sarcasm is second to none. And you have some of the most entertaining posts on the board, too. ROCK ON!!! http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

[swok34]

hmmmmm....the price of success is that you get to be on National TV the following mid-November?

Remember when Texas hit that bump in the road last season?
Or Connecticut lost an exhibition game?

I don't base a whole lot of anything on games in November and especially first games. It amazes me how a team progresses even from mid-November to mid-December....much less up into March.

The best quote I read yesterday came from Duke's Gail G out of Voepel's article:

'It's a long season. It's not about how you play the first game, but how you play the last one. Keep it in perspective.'

[Skerfan]

Originally posted by catladyok:
Chipper, your pessimism/sarcasm is second to none. And you have some of the most entertaining posts on the board, too. ROCK ON!!! http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

Touche' -- http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/wink.gif

[Jimi]

Thanks for the kind words from some of you. I was disappointed of course, but not particularly surprised by the game. As I posted in another forum, I was concerned that Coach Patterson and her staff as well as the players may not have learned as yet how to deal with the new players and rotations on the team. there is a lot more change than "returns all five starters" might suggest. I don't think we came even remotely close to what you will see later. It is November as swok said. I seem to remember Texas and Tech not being stellar in an opening game. They seemed to live through it and I expect Kansas State will too.

Coach P. is neither dumb not without a good supporting staff. She will adjust as will the team. Twiggy, Claire and Shanda will be very good, so get in any licks you want about the Wildcats depth now. Also even as a dedicated Ohlde fan I do wish coach P. would play Madden more. She is not without skill and can often pick up the team if Ohlde is off or in trouble.

The coaching staff as well as the players are building their bank of expirience and the program is growing well. Btw, don't expect KSU to go away when Ohlde graduates. It won't, there are some very good players coming in to take her place and I think KSU will be even better next year. One thing Patterson does well is assemble a Team that will play together and be better than their high school hype. In spite of what gets written Ohlde was NOT highly regarded nationally as a recruit. She had good talent and a good work ethic and she has improved every year under Coach P. and her staff. That will include this year.

If you want to say KSU has faults I have no problem with that. I doubt you can be more knowledgeably critical than I am but don't lose sight of the fact that there is a LOT of skill and ability there. We may win the Big 12 or be fourth but as women's college hoops has said "KSU could win it all (NC) or be fourth in the Big 12, or both.". That, except for maybe the finishing fourth part, applies to UT & TTU also. Heck Colorado is not chopped liver either.

Right now I would put Texas above us but then again UT has not beaten KSU since Ohlde put on a Wildcat uniform, http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/wink.gif and that includes her freshman year. Have they come close and maybe should have won? KSU-betcha! But we were glad to take the wins. On the other hand TTU seems to have had our number while Texas had theirs. I am determined to enjoy this season and revel in the fun of watching the Big 12 season and the post season. The Wildcats can become scary good or just scary, but I bet I will have lots of fun watching it.

[This message has been edited by Jimi (edited 11-17-2003).]

[Bball Girl]

KSU was standing around, they weren't playing agressive and I was suprised. However, I agree that Purdue was good and the credit should go to Purdue. Coach Patterson is a saavy lady and she'll use this game to teach and her team will pay attention.

[Jennifer]

Originally posted by Jimi:
Also even as a dedicated Ohlde fan I do wish coach P. would play Madden more. She is not without skill and can often pick up the team if Ohlde is off or in trouble.

Heck Colorado is not chopped liver either.

This message has been edited by Jimi (edited 11-17-2003).]

I have wondered myself why Madden doesn't get more PT. Does her and Ohlde get in together very often? It seems to me that most of her short comings are those associated w/ lack of big game experience. The times I have seen her play, she has played well.


Heck Colorado is not chopped liver either.
Neither is OU! (In spite of the beating KSU put on OU last season). Or Baylor, for that matter. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

[Jimi]

Originally posted by Jennifer:
I have wondered myself why Madden doesn't get more PT. Does her and Ohlde get in together very often? It seems to me that most of her short comings are those associated w/ lack of big game experience. The times I have seen her play, she has played well. [QUOTE]

Madden almost always looks good to me in games. She plays behind Ohlde and who knows, maybe she doesn't practice well. She seemed to have deminished playing time as the season wore on last year. When Coach P. spelled Ohlde late in the year it was often McFarland who came in. I like her too but I think Madden is better.

[QUOTE]Neither is OU! (In spite of the beating KSU put on OU last season). Or Baylor, for that matter. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif



Points well taken.

GO Big 12!!!!!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by Jimi (edited 11-17-2003).]

[Michael]

I thought KSU played much better with Madden on the floor then Ohlde. I am guessing if you did scoring like they do in hockey, KSU was -20 or more points while Ohlde was in the game, and plus over 10 while she was on the bench.

Another point, when you are 6'5" being guarded by a very mobile 6'0" player, why do you keep going out to the 3pt line and trying to set up to drive? I know Ohlde played some guard in HS, but she should have had her butt on the blocks the whole game, demanding the ball.

Michael

[ChipperF1]

"I know Ohlde played some guard in HS, but she should have had her butt on the blocks the whole game, demanding the ball."

Because if you tried it your way, Ohlde's not getting the ball. Purdue's guards did a fine defensive job out there. They were denying clean lanes to pass inside. Ohlde had to move high to get the ball to begin with, and with her ballhandling ability it something you have to do. You get your best players the ball anyway you can.

As for Madden being better? Having watched the game again, I don't totally buy that. Granted Madden did some thing well, but Ohlde's the horse and ride your best horse.

Again, I don't think people are giving Purdue's ability and game plan proper credit. Valek and the guards did their job and Emily Heikes did her job and thensome.

Sunday wasn't so much a matter of what KSU did wrong, although so many people want to point that out first because the pollsters gave KSU an inflated ranking and teams below them are screaming "overrated". (although in my opinion the other losing team in the State Farm Tipoff Classic is just as overrated and perhaps moreso.)
This win was more about thing done well by the team that won the game. Purdue had a plan and they ran it beautifully.

[swok34]

As for Madden being better? Having watched the game again, I don't totally buy that. Granted Madden did some thing well, but Ohlde's the horse and ride your best home

I agree with you, chipper.

[Skerfan]

Originally posted by swok34:
As for Madden being better? Having watched the game again, I don't totally buy that. Granted Madden did some thing well, but Ohlde's the horse and ride your best home

I agree with you, chipper.

That makes two of us.

[DblT81]

I'll agree with Chipper as well. Ohlde had to be in the game when she could.

[35TangoTango]

Chipper had the analysis correct when he said the difference in the game was Purdue's guard play and denying the interior pass. Lack of perimeter speed has always been KSU's weakness. If Twiggy really comes on this year, the Purples' stock will rise dramatically!