Tech-KSU thread

[YCN]

Tech looks very out of synch early in this game, committing lots of fouls and getting few rebounds. KSU looks much more deliberate and steady. (7:32 remaining 1st half)

[YCN]

KSU is looking more and more machine-like as the second half progresses. It was wise of Coach Sharp to call a time-out, things are not going their way right now. (16:17 remaining)

[anntaylor]

Perkins only has 5 points so far...she needs to start finding a way to score if Tech wants to pull this one out.

[YCN]

KSU has done a great job so far in neutralizing Perkins. She so loves that transition pop-up jumper that she is so lethal with, but KSU is stepping in her way to disrupt the shot.

Overall, this is turning into a really good game. I'm still a little in shock at how good the top of the Big 12 is. If a conference team doesn't make the Final Four, that would shock me a lot more than UConn not winning the championship, guaranteed.

[YCN]

I've got to totally disagree with the call that gave Ohlde her fourth foul. Just because Ohlde is in motion DOES NOT give Pierson the right to throw a shoulder into her to gain separation for her shot. That was clearly an offensive foul on Pierson, not a block on Ohlde.

[YCN]

Payback just delivered for the Ohlde foul.

[anntaylor]

This is a great game! Ritchie found her 3 point shot tonight.

Tech is up by 3 with a little over 3 min left to play, but it's still either team's game!

[YCN]

Hopefully Ritchie just got a nasty knock on the head. At first she reacted to the whack on the floor, which is a really positive sign overall. What you really worry about is when a player just hits her head and doesn't even move.

I see her checking her head now, probably just a bad rap. I'm sure they will do everything to make sure that there isn't any more serious injury than a concussion.

[anntaylor]

Absolutely. I hope Natalie's okay.

Congrats to Tech on the win

[YCN]

The key play of the game was Erin Grant's spin and drive for a layup immediately after the injury timeout for Ritchie. It put her team back in focus for the remainder of the game.

Had Tech just put up an errant outside jumper, I believe KSU would have won the game. Great sign of leadership from the freshman.

So who wins on Saturday?


[This message has been edited by YCN (edited 03-13-2003).]

[DBLTFarmer]

Key to this game was Tech's defense. Sure Ohlde and Wecker got their points but how many three point shots did K-State make??

Great game but Tech's defense was the key.

[Jimi]

Congratulations to Texas Tech. I sure hope Natalie Richie is OK. She is one of the "Good Guys".

[YCN]

Disagree DblT. Without Grant's heady play after the injury TO, there's no telling what might have happened.

Don't tell me that the game-long defense of Tech won the game, because the Cats played just as formidable a defense all game long.

If you want to use that card, how about the phony foul on Ohlde to give her four on an absolutely obvious drop-shoulder charging foul on Pierson with over 4 minutes left?

With Ohlde sitting down, how can you say that call wasn't the difference in the game?

[DBLTFarmer]

Hope this doesnt get posted twice, Ohlde's fourth foul was not a charge by Pierson. She moved and did not get set in time. Piersons body was already in position before Ohlde got their. When Pierson picked up her fourth foul that was a charge.

What was K-States three point shooting?? How many turnovers did they have?? How do these compare to the season averages?? Tech played good enough defense to put us in position to win, fortunately Tech got enough offense down the stretch to win the game.

Erins play was great. Its the kind of play Tech fans have been expecting from her. Weve seen her take over games in the Texas High School Championships.

It was a great game.

[DblT81]

The refs gave back that foul a couple possessions later with Wecker's dive after little contact to give Pierson her 4th.

Pierson had to play with 4 and Ayers had 4.

Tech's defense was tremendous, forcing bundles of turnovers. Several of KSU's shots were short in that last 5 minutes. Might have been fatigue.

Kansas State is an outstanding team. They are much tougher than last year. So smart, with beautiful offensive execution. And their zone defense kept Jia out of her "spots". Nobody like ODU will manhandle them this year. They will go a long way. They better go deep into the NCAA tournament!

This game could have gone either way. Ritchie's 3 point shot to put Tech up 4 for the first time was as big a play as any.

Get better Nat! Thanks Jimi, she is one of the good guys.

[YCN]

Different aspects of the game tend to balance out. K-State outshot Tech and 12 more rebounds. Tech had fewer turnovers and more steals.

If you are going to argue about the play where Ohlde got her fourth foul then you need to read the rulebook. When a defender is paralleling an offensive player on a drive and in front of that player, and if the defender is NOT stepping in front of the player without being set, then the defender has the same right to her position on the floor as the player with the ball.

That meant that as long as Ohlde did not move into the path of the offensive player (Pierson), she had every right to retain her position on the floor. Don't think that defender being in motion gives the person with the ball a right to crash into the defender, that just isn't true at all. Pierson dropped her shoulder and slammed into Ohlde in an attempt to clear space for her upcoming shot. That is and always has been a charge.

If you don't believe what I'm saying take a look at a replay of that foul. Ohlde didn't in any way get in the way of Pierson's drive to the basket. Instead, Pierson changed direction and fullbacked into Ohlde, which is a charging foul.

It was not even close, and the officials missed it. If you have proof otherwise, send it to me; but I am telling you I know the rules and was watching that play as intently as anybody on this planet, and Ohlde did not initiate contact, nor did she interfere with Pierson's right to attack the basket.

[DBLTFarmer]

I wont disagree with your interpretation of the rule book. What I will disagree with is the manner in which you say it occurred. Ohlde moved into Piersons path. Ohled did not move parallel to Pierson but moved toward her. That is the way I saw it and I know you dont agree. Plennettes fourth foul is a perfect example of your rulebook quotes.

The fourth foul call on Ohlde could have went either way. 90% of the time it is going to go against the defensive player. As I said before, I did not see it in the same light as you.

As for the defense, Tech forced more turnovers and had more steals. They also limited K-States perimeter game. Had the Tech defense not done these things K-State probably would have blown out Tech. Tech has beaten K-State twice in a week by limiting perimeter shooting.

[YCN]

I guess what I'm ultimately saying is that this game was not decided until the final minute-plus of the game. I'm not a big believer in overall game performance as a true indicator of who wins in the stretch of a close game. I believe that it takes one or more players that step up in the clutch.

Grant stepped up. And I really hope you get to see a replay of the foul on Ohlde, to see what I am talking about. My bet is that you will not be so convinced that she impeded Pierson. But the better team of the moment won.

I would be worried if I had to play either of these teams in the NCAA tournament, and whichever team it was would not really be a factor - I'd be just plain worried, period.

[DblT81]

"Don't think that defender being in motion gives the person with the ball a right to crash into the defender, that just isn't true at all."

Ohlde did that same push into the defender many times during the game, particularly in the first half. Most of the time it was a no call. Ohlde got separation the same way. Granted it wasn't called a foul on Tech, but it also wasn't called an offensive foul either.

[This message has been edited by DblT81 (edited 03-13-2003).]

[35TangoTango]

Neutral observer - thought both Ohlde's and Pierson's 4th fouls were bad calls.

Thought the play of the game was Grant's layup after Ritchie went out. Both teams were in shock, teamwork and passing weren't going to work, so Erin jumpstarted the game again.

The difference? One can make a case for any of three people as POY, but in my mind there is no doubt as to who is the most talented player in the league - we'll all be watching her in the WNBA next year.

[AusTech]

The foul called on Ohlde was a 50/50 deal. Just depends on the officials view. Personally I thought it was a no call in that situation. PP didn't charge, but Ohlde didn't really impede her move to the bucket. Most of the calls inside were questionable in a fan's mind, but considering the physical play in there I think the refs did well tonight.
KSU fans seem especially cranky tonight. For those 'Cat fans out there...You are going to do some serious damage in the NCAAs!! Stop fretting over Tech. We just match up well against you, just as Texas has us this year. I am so impressed with the effort by both squads.
Let's go Lady Raiders!!

p.s. Natalie Ritchie is okay! Looks like a concussion, but better than we thought. Thank you to all of you who were praying for her tonight.

[DblT81]

A comment by a columnist for the Dallas Morning News:
Chatter by Steve Davis (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dallas/sports/college/big12tournament/men/stories/031403dnspobig12chatter.7aa56.html)

"A dozen quick thoughts about the Big 12 tournaments:


I
Dishin' out praise

Anyone who thinks the women's game has no athleticism has never watched Texas Tech standout Plenette Pierson flat-out bring it. "

[This message has been edited by DblT81 (edited 03-14-2003).]

[westtx35]

What a game, but I want to say something with regards to the fans of Tech. Before I start, remember one bad apple spoils the barrel. I saw some great support for all teams this week, but during the Texas game, I saw plenty of Tech fans cheering against Texas...understandable since we have beaten you twice allready. Anyway, since it seemed like Tech fans really outnumbered the Cats, I decided that fairs fair, and I would cheer for the cats, since we only lost by 2 at Kstate, and we wanted a rematch. Well as soon as I opened my mouth, the evil stares started, as if surprised that such a thing would happen. Moving on, after Ritchie unfortunately got hurt, many of the Tech fans were saying really hateful things about the Kstate players and how dirty that play was....as if they actually slammed her down on purpose. After the 10 minutes of silence and Ritchie was taken off, and it got down to 28 seconds left and the game was virtually over, a little old woman of about 70 walked by and yelled at us (since we were yelling for Kstate, but still had our Texas gear on)...and I quote..."All Kansas people can go to hell". Now I have heard how nasty the fans in Lubbock can be, but for a 70 yr old (probably a professed "Christian" woman) to yell such obsenities right after an almost tragic accident was down right lude and crude. I have no respect for fans of any sport to be so hateful.
signed DISGUSTED WITH TECH REPRESENTATION (what a disgrace).

[Jimi]

Originally posted by AusTech:
KSU fans seem especially cranky tonight.

p.s. Natalie Ritchie is okay! Looks like a concussion, but better than we thought. Thank you to all of you who were praying for her tonight.

If you are refering to YCN your are wrong on two counts. One, YCN in not primarily a K-State fan. I am and remain a proud Kansas State fan.

Two, in this case he was a knowlegable fan of Big 12 basketball telling you the way he saw it. Frankly I don't see how he was in any way out of line and I agree with his point of view. That does not mean I am dissing Tech.

If you were refering to somthing not on this board, OK, but I don't know about it.

I am glad to hear that Ritchie is OK. As I said above, she is a credit to Texas Tech and Big 12 basketball. I hope she can play against Texas. Good luck to Texas Tech in the NCAA's.

HOOK-EM HORNS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[YCN]

I tend not to comment on officials calls at all, and I don't think I've made one comment about an official's call in any OU games this year, and I am an OU fan. I certainly don't have any vested interest in KSU or Tech.

In fact, for most of the year I have said that I thought that Tech would win the national title this year. I've backed off of that a little bit because of what I perceived as a little bit of a lack of toughness inside, but I'm starting to come back around to my original thinking.

The problem with picking Tech is that the Big 12 has 3 teams that seem almost equally capable of winning the NCAA tournament, and all three are legitimate contenders, not just hopeful wanna-be's.

I made the argument that the official's call was wrong on Pierson's drive against Ohlde after seeing the original play and the replay. In my opinion the officials in the Big 12 tend to favor the player driving to the basket at the expense of the defender in too many cases. I felt that Ohlde, on that play, was doing a textbook job of shadowing her player when Pierson suddenly lunges toward Ohlde with a lowered shoulder, clearly with the intent of backing her off of the pending shot.

Regardless of the impact of the call, which was significant since Ohlde was sat down shortly after that play for about 3 minutes, and could not defend as effectively when she returned, for fear of fouling out; I believe that the official's interpretation is wrong. Both players have their position on the court and are entitled to it. But what a player cannot do is change direction with the ball and run into the defender. That isn't any different than the defender trying to slide in front of the attacking player in order to draw a charge. In the latter case it is a blocking foul, and in the former it is a charge.

I am very glad to hear that Ritchie is doing well, that was more than a bit of a scare last night. And good luck to Tech on Saturday, I expect that once more we will be treated to another classic Big 12 rivalry game.

[grojc]

DISGUSTED WITH TECH REPRESENTATION (what a disgrace).

Welcome to the rivalry westtex. You should see all the comments on Raiderpower.com on how ugly Deb Patterson, Stacy Stephens, and Jody Conradt are. Some of their fans are that low and insecure.

But I really admire their team. Natalie Richie and Joley Ayers are true college athletes and warriors. I hope Natalie has a quick recovery. She seems like a lovely person as well.

So don't let the fans behavior make you lose your perspective.

[Raider Red]

westtx35, I wouldnt exactly call the UT Fans classy. When yall come to town, you did plenty of trashing! One of Heather Schrieber's family members totally made a fool out of herself in the student section. I wouldn't have thought she would have picked a fight, but I sat right there and watched her.

It was in the heat of the moment, the lady was upset. Our players are idiolized. We have the third strongest back in the country, which puts us at the top of the Big 12. Some people think of the girls as there kids

[grojc]

And now Texas are the "whorns" http://pub242.ezboard.com/fraiderpowerfrm5.showMessage?topicID=1249.topic.

What class.

[ClassOf98]

Ugh - I cringed when I saw that thread. I just knew it would make an appearance in another forum. We aren't all like that, I promise.

[Court Jester]

Again....a few bad apples. I guess when the rest of the league(or nation for that matter) catches up with Tech in fan support, those bad apples will tend to magnify themselves. It happens. It could be like some boards with NO FAN INTEREST WHATSOEVER! At least it's discussion of WBB. DOn't recall many schools Message Boards that even have a WBB forum. Most just lump it in with the mens. Anyway, tired of ranting and I will get off my soapbox for now. I thought KSU played a great, clean game and hope they go far in the tourney. Now as far as ut...............

well, I'll just say GO TECH! http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

[AusTech]

My post had nothing to do with YCNs at all. He was just pointing out his own perspective and I don't debate other people's personal views. The comment was aimed at the 'Cat fans in my house last night who were really down after the game. They visit here from time to time.
As for fansmanship...sit down Longhorns. Nobody, I repeat, nobody has the market cornered there. Most women's bball fans are well-mannered and well versed in the game. However, there are those people who let emotion get the best of them.
If something as juvenile as 'whorn' bothers you then imagine being a Tech student/grad/fan and constantly being harassed and disparaged by UT fans. Maybe there is some real resentment in that poor old woman. Who cares?!
Let it go. If you can't let something like that slide you are going to have some real troubles in this world.
Tonight will be a great game. I know Texas fans are nervous about playing a hot Tech team for the third time, but I still give the slight edge to Texas. I hope I'm wrong, but Stephens and Schreiber have been unstoppable all year and the supporting cast isn't too shabby either.
I get the feeling that Tech's bench is going to play a big role tonight. Best wishes to both squads for an injury-free and exciting game.

[grojc]

I understand Classof98. On hornfans (which does have a women's thread) they are already being typical Texas fans and discussing national championships. One game at a time! And believe it or not, they are complaining about KSU fans. And on this board, I think the KSU posters are the classiest and best.

I personally give a slight nod to Tech now. Texas is missing too many free throws and jumpers. But boy, both teams really are MENTALLY tough. I hope it is just a barn burner and we show the country how great the Big 12 is and how these two TEXAS teams are legitimate final four threats. And let's hope that ALL fans are classy and just like the classy players from BOTH teams - can LEAVE IT ON THE FLOOR!

[Guns Up!]

Originally posted by grojc:

And now Texas are the "whorns" http://pub242.ezboard.com/fraiderpowerfrm5.showMessage?topicID=1249.topic.

What class.



and I guess calling Tech "Sand Aggies" is classy?????

[DblT81]

Originally posted by grojc:
And on this board, I think the KSU posters are the classiest and best.

Grojc, on that we can agree! (Speaking of classy fans, where has KSURon been lately, or did he get a new *handle*?)

I think the matchup thingy favors Texas on Saturday night. (Gotta get that underdog mentality working for us.... http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/wink.gif ).

Seriously, Texas just seems to have that slight matchup edge against Tech this year, like it appears that Tech has vs K-State (and, maybe, to complete the circle, KSU has over Texas).

BTW, Nina Norman is beginning to remind me of Jia. Gulp!

I'm just excited Tech is back in the championship game and its against Texas in Reunion Arena. It just doesn't get any better than that for this Tech fan. Well, maybe getting to play in the Final 4 would be better but this is now and that might not be.

Fans are fans. Some are stupid, some act stupid on message boards and at games, many get angry from time to time about something, most are good people.

I saw the game on TV and the replay of Nat's injury and I never once thought it was anything more than a freak accident. However, if I had been at the game and my attention was not focused on that specific part of the play or my view was blocked and my adrenaline was pumping from such an exciting game and somebody misinformed me about what actually happened, my short term reaction might have been anger. I would have been wrong and I hope Tech fans who saw it in a bad light woke up this morning and found out they were wrong to be angry.

It is also silly for Tech fans to think Texas fans would be cheering for them. Not because of the rivalry though. I was cheering for Colorado to win. I wanted Tech to have a better chance in the championship game if they could get by KSU. Maybe Texas fans wanted KSU to win so they could get revenge for the only bump in their road since conference play began. Whatever the particular motivation, there is no home state rule that says we have to pull for each other. If Texas and KSU and CU and OU are not in Tech's NCAA region, I guarantee I will be cheering for them to succeed. If they are in Tech's region, I will be cheering for the team that I believe would be the best matchup for Tech to keep winning.

March Madness is here and its a great day!

[zip]

I just have to chime in here. As a Texas fan sitting last night (Thurs) in the sea of purple - I have never in my life heard a group of fans *****, moan, scream, etc at EVERY and I do mean EVERY call that went against KSU. I started out cheering for KSU - I wanted to play them Sat night - but I could not continue cheering for K-State because their fans were so ridiculously biased and obnoxious. I will also have to say that I think KSU has an outstanding team - they are one of my favorite teams (besides UT) to watch - they run great plays and they have great players. I think they have a very good chance of making it to the Final Four and winning it all. I also think Deb Patterson is an outstanding coach - I really have great respect for what she has done at KSU. That said however, I was shocked by the KSU fan behavior AND it wasn't a few bad apples - it was a whole bushel full (several bushels in fact). I know UT fans can be intolerable, as are TT, OU, etc etc etc fans, but I have never heard the kind of things I heard last night at a women's BB game.

[grojc]

Nice post DB. All of us are too guilty of forgetting that these are just remarkable young, and I emphasize, young ladies. Its not really about us. I've been following the Horns for about 8 years, and not that this is by far their best team, its the intangibles they have. Whatever happens on Saturday is just another game. They've won my heart. And this year's Tech team just really impresses me with their poise. I can't say enough about how much I like Joley Ayers and Natalie Richie.

My only regret about this year is that I would like to have seen the conference been stronger. Good luck. I will post no further unless it is to praise a player or team.

[swok34]

I really enjoyed this tourney, met lots of Texas Tech and Texas fans....who I thought were really, really nice.

A funny story though from Day 1: I was talking to some Texas Tech fans out in the nicotine addicted section between games and at halftime and we got on a discussion about Bobby Knight, eek...
after listening to them carry on, I decided I needed to maybe find a new area.....come to discover, they were living next door in the motel 4 miles away from Reunion http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/wink.gif We just didn't discuss Bobby Knight anymore.....and they were very nice folks.

I don't think I can describe the energy that got sucked out of the arena when Natalie got hurt. I knew that Kansas State didn't have a chance to win that game after that. Even as a fan, it really affects you emotionally, so I can only imagine what it does to the players on the floor, not only for the Texas Tech team, but for the Kansas State players also. I actually decided to root for Texas Tech, because I decided that would be best for the tournament final Saturday. But, it was such a great game up until that point, that I didn't care who won. It was so much fun watching these great players from both teams.

I hate to see something like that happen to any player and I've never had to witness seeing a player carried out on a stretcher.
We were sitting right near the baseline with all the photographers.....now, that was tacky and we told 'em so. All of them fighting to take her picture on a stretcher.

I'm so glad Natalie is ok. I was talking to some young girls on Wednesday nite during the first Tech game and asked them who their fav player was....they told me Natalie. One of them told me she was a girl scout and Nat writes her. I've always really liked Natalie Ritchie and wish her all the best in her recovery.

Jamie Carey took a pretty hard spiel in the UT/CU game and I know half the crowd held it's breath watching her get up.


[This message has been edited by swok34 (edited 03-14-2003).]

[zip]

Yep, you can always hear a collective sucking sound - more than just "Texas Sucks" http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif in Austin when Jamie goes down. It is so scarey, but so far everything has been OK.

I too, like Natalie Richie very much and I admire her play. I hope all goes well for her. The Tech team will miss her Sat. night, but they have a great team and they will give us Horns fits, as always, I'm sure.

[SKATERBOY]

Being at the game last night after Natalie went down i got all the emotion & hype sucked out of me. I felt so bad, like losing a best friend or something. My cousin went with me and prayed so hard, and when we left my cousin being the devout catholic that she is she lit some special candle and prayed alot more at the hotel room. It really bugged me alot today. I had a mild headache because of that too. I prayed alot for Natalie, her family and the Tech fans. I know we tent to go just overboard with the rivaly both schools have - Texas and Texas Tech. Its too bad when something like this has to happen and we realize these are young girls, someones children, that the importance of winning comes out. No one wants anyone to get hurt. Aside from all the negative posts that we read, name calling, bashing, lets pray for a speedy recovery to Natalie, and that tomorrows game is a good game and no one gets hurt. Good luck to both teams. Great it is a Texas championship. right http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

[SKATERBOY]

What I mean was both teams are from Texas.

[Jimi]

Sorry about the double post (edited out). I didn't realize it went on the second page. I did not see it so I reposted. Maybe if I was an old hand like KSUron I would have known better. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/wink.gif

Good luck to all Big 12 teams in the post season.

GO BIG 12!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[This message has been edited by Jimi (edited 03-16-2003).]

[Jimi]

Originally posted by DblT81:
[B]where has KSURon been lately, or did he get a new *handle*?[B]

After several deserved jabs from Chipper where he said I was in a "purple haze" and called me Jimi, as in Jimi Hendrix, I adopted the name. Jimi is the new version of KSUron.

Thanks for the kind words but I'm not so sure I'm always classy. I can get emotional and out of line like any other fan. Most of the fans on this board are classy most of the time.

I can also testify from up close and personal contact that there are such things as very UNclassy K-State fans. Wildcat fans do tend to take WBB seriously and don't always react well when they think the players they love have been wronged. Then again some, like some fans everywhere, are just plain dumb and rude to boot. Most of the time I am proud of the vast majority of them.

I can join almost all of you in one thing. I like to see KSU beat every other Big 12 team but I don't want anyone else beating one of our sisters. Good luck to all in the post season.

GO BIG 12!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Bball Girl]

Well as a Tech fan, I was yelling for KSU. First I think (and Coach Sharp confirmed that I wasn't crazy) we seem to have match up probems with Baylor. Second, if you're going to win...win against a higher seed or if you're going to lose...lose against a higher seed. Besides, I like the KSU team and coaches. They play hard, they work hard, they are gracious in defeat and in victory.

It was a great game. After watching KSU and Koehn light up the 3s against Baylor...I thought we were in trouble. But Tech's defense did a great job on the perimter and they did a decent job on Ohlde. By crowding her in the paint, they didn't give her enough room to move the way she wanted to move and when that happened she really struggled. When they did give her room, the ball went in the hole. KSU did a terrific job on the boards and I still think Wecker in the best all around player in the Big 12. She's is everywhere, doing everything to help her team win. Mahoney is also bigtime and I also like Madden. Koehn does a lot more for the team than shoot threes. She's constantly hustling. There also seems to be terrific respect between the players of our teams.

As far as fouls go, I always thing the refs missed a few on both sides. What irritates me is when they let the teams bang on each other with both hands/arms and then they call bump or a touch foul. If they called every bump or touch in any of these games...we'd be there all night.

Natalie going down was one of the worst things I've ever been through. I've never heard 10,000 people be so quiet. Natalie is probably the soul of this team in many ways and the young girls love her because she's so giving to them. We are all thankful she's ok and I'm also glad Kendra didn't get hurt when she fell over Natalie..she took a pretty hard tumble.