The best center in the conference.......

[35TangoTango]

With all due respect to Ohlde & Bjorkland, the best center in the conference right now is lowly OSU's Trisha Skibbe! Every night, like Lindsey Wilson, she faces defenses stacked to stop her. Almost every night, she scores 20 plus against those defenses, and does it without missing a ton of shots. She rebounds, plays defense, and is so consistent. She brings her "A" game every night!

[YCN]

Do you mind if I respectfully disagree?

Here's Ohlde's Hoopla points to date, not including tonight's game:

24
22
23
30
40
12
20
20
14
21
25
24
30
32
22
24
24
25
12
15
19
37
18

I can't imagine it getting much better than that. In fact, I think that Nicole may just be bordering on first team All-America status right now.

[35TangoTango]

Yes, but Ohlde faces defenses stacked against Wecker. Put Ohlde on OSU's team and Skibbe on KState's, and what would be the result?

Then again, it's just my opinion. Wonder what the Texas people think after tonight?

[YCN]

I can't answer that. I know that since OSU is almost never on TV I never get to see Skibbe play.

I'll pose a different question. If Skibbe played for K-State, would they be 22-2, or better? And if Ohlde played for OSU, would they be 5-16, or worse?

[Jimi]

Nicole Ohlde almost never sees anything less than a double team and when she does get one on one she usually makes people pay. I respect Skibbe tremendously but no way I would trade Ohlde for her. Ohlde does not score a ton everynight partly because she doesn't have to. Being the focus of the game cuts both ways. Nicole can be effective in kicking in assists, breaking presses, defending quick players etc. as well as scoring. Ohlde is 3rd in the conference in scoring, 6th in rebounding, 1st in FG%, 9th in assists, 4th in blocked shots, 12th in assist/TO ratio 5th in offensive rebounds and 8th in defensive rebounds. That puts her in the top 10 in 7 of the 12 Big Twelve stat catogories. The next best looked at that way is Stacy Stephens (6-12). For 5-12 its Kendra Wecker, Lindsey Wilson & Plenette Pierson.

Of course you can do all kinds of things with stats but the point is that I belive Ohlde's overall game is better than Skibbe's. Having said that I sure think Skibbe would look good in purple, and I'm glad she is getting some of the credit she deserves.

[Moooooo]

I'll play. At a generously-listed 6'1, Stacy Stephens is the best center in the league, inch-for-inch. When she gets back to power forward next year, look out . . .

[ChipperF1]

[quote]"the best center in the conference right now is lowly OSU's Trisha Skibbe!"

That's exactly why she's not the best.
OSU is a bad team with out without her. If Trisha Skibbe's the best then OSU would be farther up the standings.

Now take Nicole Ohlde away from Kansas State, they drop down the standings one or two places. Ohlde is a key component of a team that's running and she's been a big part of that success. Two years ago, KSU was where OSU is, and Ohlde is a big part of that.

Put Skibbe on a better team, she'd get some more props, but to be a first teamer you either have to perform at a superhuman level and Skibbe's good, but not superhuman (she was a non-factor against Nebraska's poor group of "posts"), or you have to make a serious impact in the standings.

Trisha's going to get a look in the WNBA. A smart GM in that league will keep an eye on her. She is a good player, but has been stuck in pergatory for four years.
But putting her ahead of Ohlde or Stephens or even Bjorklund? Well maybe ahead of Bjorklund. Trisha comes to do battle every night, Tera Bjorklund doesn't.

[Buffsfan22]

A center whose primary offensive weapon is a fading baseline jumper? Cute, but that doesn't make for the best center in the conference.

Stephen's..like her game, but just FYI, Duquesne's Beth Friday, another "6'1" (that's a stretch really) post, is putting up better #'s (15.2 PPG, 11.0 RB's) than Stephen's.

And the A-10 West is dang tough this year...and since she put up even better #'s than her average up against Vanderbilt's 6'6 Chantelle Anderson, ya can't really claim it's about schedule.

Sorry, just wanted to get a prop in for a non-conference homegirl favorite who deserves a lot more props than she gets.

As to the question at hand, I'd say it's between the obvious two.

[carolann]

Skibbe is an excellent player and a great scorer. The best center is Nicole Ohlde. Nicole Ohlde does so many things well.

I really hoped Texas would have another power in the paint by this year to see what Stacy Stephens could do at power forward. It was not to be. A lot of non-Texas fans view Stacy as just a big girl who pushes people out of her way. Stacy is, in fact, a highly skilled player. Her strength is a big asset which she uses but it is not fair or correct to attribute all of Stacy's success to her strength anymore than it would be fair to attribute all of Ohlde's success to her height.

P.S. In reality, I seriously doubt Stacy Stephens is more than 6'0".

[This message has been edited by carolann (edited 02-13-2003).]

[ChipperF1]

"A lot of non-Texas fans view Stacy as just a big girl who pushes people out of her way.

Well, Stacy is a cheeseburger ahead of a lot of people, but what strike me about her is her brains and her footwork. Stacy is rarely out of position to make a shot or a pass. She can catch and shoot when she need too, but her best move is getting on the blocks, working the pivot and going to the rack hard. I don't think anybody considers her a goon or a bruiser. There is a lot of skill in that kid. You can't do the things she does without a great deal of skill.

[grojc]

Ask Tennessee what they think about Stephens at center. On a team as well balanced as Texas, numbers can be deceiving. I love Ohlde. I thought she was POY last year. This year I say it goes to Wecker. But I wouldn't trade Stephens. She is the heart and soul of a team that is tied for first in the conference, and the only team in the Big 12 that beat two final four teams last year and the team from the conference that has the win over the highest ranked team in the top 10 this year.

[kate dawg]

First of all, define center. I define it as someone in the paint, posting up all night and the player who gets creamed in the back, front, sides and head all day long and gets no calls. Centers don't dribble the ball down the floor and play point guard from time to time. They don't hang out on the perimeter. I guess you pick your poison as far as what it is you define as a center and what you look for in that position.

And ps, I have to chime in on this: to say Bjorklund doesn't bring it every night is a load. The girl has a three-game slump to start Big 12's at what was obviously an inopportune time, and everyone writes her off. I'd take her on my team any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[cctigerfan]

Quote: [Yes, but Ohlde faces defenses stacked against Wecker. Put Ohlde on OSU's team and Skibbe on KState's, and what would be the result?]

I would have to disagree and say that K State faces defenses stacked against Ohlde and Koehn (when she plays). You stop Ohlde and you force K State to shoot outside. Now on most nights that will still kill you because we shoot so well, but I will force teams to beat me outside before giving them the paint. Now being from Clay Center it hurts me to say this, Nicole can be stopped. Koehn can be stopped. However, I don't know of anyone that can stop Wecker, except herself. She has the best skills of all of them. She can go outside or inside. She can post the best defenders up, she can bury the 3, and she finds a way to get her hands on just about every rebound. So you can't really stop Wecker, you can only hope to contain her; which very few, if any, have done.

[35TangoTango]

What prompted my post was that Skibbe just outperformed Stephens head-to-head. Knowing how much better Texas is than OSU, I picked Stephens for my Hoopla team rather than Skibbe. Big mistake.

If Ohlde faces double-teams every time, and Wecker faces double-teams every time, that only leaves one player to guard the other three purples.

I don't by any means want to deny that Ohlde is a really good player, but she is the second best player on her team. She may face double-teams after she gets the ball, but until that happens, defenses are far more worried about stopping Wecker. Get Wecker out of the game, and Ohlde can be managed (look at KState's one conference loss - look at the Big 12 tournament last year). When playing OSU by contrast, the defense's first priority is to deny Skibbe the ball at all.

Again, this is only my opinion, but if Ohlde was a Cowgirl and Skibbe was a Wildcat, both teams would have the same record they have today.

Maybe I am overboard here (I certainly have no reason to be a homer for OSU), but we have two players in the conference who are playing the "Against All Odds" game really well - Skibbe and Lindsey Wilson. I think they are both deserving of a lot more recognition than they get.

[carolann]

First of all, define center. I define it as someone in the paint, posting up all night and the player who gets creamed in the back, front, sides and head all day long and gets no calls.

No one does that more than Stacy Stephens!

I don't feel even remotely qualified to say whether Bjorklund 'brings it' every night or not. I do think of her as a little 'soft'. I don't think of her as a tough defender or particularly good rebounder. I expect Tera to put up some points when she comes to Austin. I'm hoping she gives up at least as many points as she scores to Texas' shorter front court players.

[This message has been edited by carolann (edited 02-13-2003).]

[carolann]

Soonerman,

Re: Skibbe/Stephens
Skibbe had 4 more points. Stacy had 4 more rebounds. Rebounds = possessions for your team. Skibbe's higher hoopla score can be attributed to free throw shooting. Stacy had an off night hitting only 3 of 9. Skibbe was 8-10. That was a 2nd bad free throw shooting night in a row for Stacy. Stacy did hit the essential free throws near the end of the game. Who knows why a person shoots free throws well for several games and then suddently starts missing?

[ChipperF1]

"to say Bjorklund doesn't bring it every night is a load.

It must not be a load to Ceal Berry because she's been riding Tera on her focus since she got to campus and has benched Tera in parts of the last two seasons because of it.
One doesn't bench a player who comes to play every outing. Tera has the skills, I'm not disputing that. But does Tera have the game-in game-out focus? No she doesn't, and even Coach Berry agrees with that, and had said so.

I know lack of consistent game-to-game focus when I see it. I watch a whole team of it. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/wink.gif

[JohnHenry]

Ask Tennessee what they think about Stephens at center. On a team as well balanced as Texas, numbers can be deceiving
Thank you...

Stacy is, in fact, a highly skilled player.

Indeed. She makes steals and handles and passes the ball very well, and better than last year. Also gets a lot of dbl-teams. And she's an aggressive competitor whose attitude inspires her teammates. She was getting whacked on all sides by Kansas last week, but she hung in there and made them pay. She's no crybaby. She's a hard-working country girl who wants to get the job done.

Oh, yeah - Skibbe is a bad-ass as well. And Ohlde's got the skills of a seasoned pro, if you ask me.

------------------
http://www.texassports.com/images/photo_gallery/2002_03/001/wbb_122102/images/last_shot.jpg

[DblT81]

This is entertaining.

[Cowgirlfan]

OK, I've been lurking on this board for a while now and finally felt the need to register and post.

As for this whole Skibbe debate, I am probably the most qualified to comment on her talent, because I am at all of OSU's home games and follow the team quite a bit.

Now, admittedly, I am new to following women's basketball and haven't seen some of the other great players in the conference (like Ohlde).

I will say this -- Skibbe may be the best pure shooting center in the league. She is the best three-point shooter on her team. She is by far the most consistent and best offensive weapon the Cowgirls have.

For her to be fourth in the conference and put up 18.9 points is impressive, considering no one else on the team approaches 10 a night and she is often triple team.

Where she lacks is offensive rebounds. Her defense is good, but not great, and her defensive rebounding is good. She is second in the conference with 5.89 defensive rebounds a game, but she is 14th at the offensive end with 2.33 per game.

The problem is she seldom blocks out on offense and too often goes for the fadeaway, which leaves her out of position to get the rebound.

I love Skibbe's game and consider her to be one of the best PLAYERS in the league, but until she decides to make offensive rebounds a priority, I'd still rather have an Ohlde or a Stephens.

[Jennifer]

Wow! A cowgirl fan. And an objective one at that.

Welcome to Hoopscoop. Stick around and join in often now that you've registered. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

[Cowgirlfan]

Yeah, admittedly we Cowgirl fans are few and far between at this point.

But Goodenough will right the ship, I think. The team beat Arkansas, should have beaten Texas and for the first nine minutes of the second half against Iowa State, played as well as anyone in the conference (the thing is they cannot sustain those runs).

Remember that Goodenough was hired the first day of the signing period, so she is making due with a lot of talent that is below the Big 12 level. With a full recruiting class or two, I think she'll get it going.

[Court Jester]

I kind of like the "4 headed monster" center. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif You know.....Ayers-Greenwalt-Davis-Clark! http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

[carolann]

Welcome, cowgirl fan!

[swok34]

welcome, cowgirlfan....finally, we have an Oklahoma State fan http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

We have been looking for some time now for a fan to give us some insight into the Cowgirls. I really appreciate your input.

I thought Skibbe made some incredible shots in Norman. I really like Goodenough, and I think you are right, she will be a great coach. Heck, she got kids to play ball with no scholie in D3...
imagine what she can do with scholarships.

[Cowgirlfan]

Ah yes, the ever-posting Sooner fan.

I must admit, I am not a big fan of the Sooners, being from OSU and all. But in women's basketball, how can you not like Coach Coale and her team -- last year, especially, when Stacy Dales was incredible.

I just look forward to the future recruiting and on-court battles between Coale and Goodenough. If Goodenough does as good a job as I think she will, it will be very interesting to see this go on. While it isn't nearly to that level yet, it could be a bit like watching Texas and Tech go at it.

[Bob_Ballew]

Welcome Cowgirlfan! Skibbe's good, Stephen's good, Bjorklund's good, but Olhde is the best. Hoopla points don't lie. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

[Jennifer]

Originally posted by Cowgirlfan:
Ah yes, the ever-posting Sooner fan.

I must admit, I am not a big fan of the Sooners, being from OSU and all. But in women's basketball, how can you not like Coach Coale and her team -- last year, especially, when Stacy Dales was incredible.

Cowgirlfan, I have a small confession to make. I attended OSU from '96-98. I attended many wbb games, and then I would cheer for OSU, except when the played OU. That was the only sport I cheered for OSU in. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif I did know a bit more about their team back then, but all the players I saw play have since graduated.

I

[swok34]

I just look forward to the future recruiting and on-court battles between Coale and Goodenough. If Goodenough does as good a job as I think she will, it will be very interesting to see this go on. While it isn't nearly to that level yet, it could be a bit like watching Texas and Tech go at it.

cowgirlfan....I suspect that Goodenough will also steal some talent from the state of Texas, being that Goodenough came from Texas.

and we sure do like Phylesha Whaley down here, it was kind of a hard thing to see her sitting on the enemy's bench http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/wink.gif

[35TangoTango]

Welcome cowgirlfan!! Come back - bring friends!

[Jimi]

Welcome to the board Cowgirlfan! Where have you been all our lives? http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/wink.gif Good input. Its great to have an OSU fan on here.

[wbbcatfan]

I've not seen Skibee but will this Saturday. I think a lot of this thread will be cleared up when they (Ohlde,Skibee) go head to head. Right now I'm open to there being someone out there that can do some the things Ohlde does but in the last 3 years I've just not seen any that can do all the things she does. So let the games begin!!!!

[schooner2]

Originally posted by Cowgirlfan:
Remember that Goodenough was hired the first day of the signing period, so she is making due with a lot of talent that is below the Big 12 level. With a full recruiting class or two, I think she'll get it going.

Well, if you mean her recruiting class was sub-par, maybe. But she is working with D1 talent - same talent as was there last season. Skibbe, Hutchens, Hawkins (who is really coming on strong and gave me the most points in my latest Hoopla! team), and Craig are definitely D1 and at least average players for the Big 12 with Skibbe and Hawkins being above average. And Craig will be above average for sure before her career is out.

Thing is, by the end of his career, Dick Halterman was an okay recruiter at best. I think Goodenough has a good chance at recruiting better than he did.

[Cowgirlfan]

I never said anyone was below Division I talent (though I think that may be the case with a few of the girls).

What I said was most of the team is really not as good as the rest of their Big 12 competition. OSU's top six players -- Skibbe, Craig, Hawkins, Allen, Hutchens and Willis -- are all good enough (no pun intended) for Big 12 play. The problem is, after that, the rest of that squad just isn't that good.

And Goodenough inherited only four players from Halterman. Her recruiting class was sub-par, because she had to hire a staff and recruit while most teams had already recruited. Plus she had to fill more spots than most teams.

All I'm saying is I don't believe this year is any sort of indication of how they will be in the future.

[HuskerFan86]

But she is working with D1 talent - same talent as was there last season.

This is true, but didn't OSU graduate a pretty good post player last year? I can't remember her name right now, but she was named Big 12 player of the week last year after OSU pulled off a couple of big upsets. It seems like her last name was Cummings or something. She and Skibbe were pretty dominating in the paint last year (at least when they came to Lincoln).

[Row6Seat10]

Good memory Huskerfan86!

I think her name was Tara Cummings. I thought last year we could of beat them when they came up here to Lincoln.

Also, if you remember Okie State put in Thia Willis who hadn't hardly scored all year and she lit us up for 20 some points. She hit 4 or 5 three-pointers.

[35TangoTango]

Hey! Someone posted a thread with the conference stats! And which center is leading?

[HuskerFan86]

Yeah, I remember. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/frown.gif

That loss made the win this year all the sweeter..

Who will be the next great post player in the Big 12?? I'd have to take Sophia Young even though she is more of a power forward than a center. I haven't been sold on Cisti Greenwalt yet, but if she keeps putting up #'s like she did against A&M, watch out.

[AusTech]

You would be hard pressed to get a WNBA GM to pick anyone but Ohlde as the best 5 in the Big 12 right now. I like Skibbe, Stephens, the Tech center by committee clan, and Bjorkland, but if you are going to build a team around a center you would build it around Ohlde.

[35TangoTango]

Originally posted by AusTech:
You would be hard pressed to get a WNBA GM to pick anyone but Ohlde....

Based on the WNBA's treatment of Angie Welle, I'm not sure I agree with that. In fact, I bet of Ohlde, Skibbe, and Stephens, Skibbe will be the highest draft pick (think about what kind of players the WNBA takes).

That said, I didn't have the nerve to pick Skibbe for my hoopla team this time - Stephens going against the 'Clones looked like a wiser choice.

[Cowgirlfan]

That post player was 5-10 Tari Cummings. Cummings was a great post player, but most importantly, she was the unquestioned leader on that team.

The squad is really missing that this year. The four players who returned are more the quiet types, so they don't fire their teammates up very well.

And again, Goodenough is not doing it with the same team that was there last year. She has four -- count them, Skibbe, Hawkins, Hutchens, Willis -- players back from that team. That squad graduated seven seniors and a few other players quit.

As for Skibbe in the WNBA, I have no doubt she has the talent to play there. The question is if she is willing to work for it. She is not strong enough right now and still needs to work on the little things (which become huge) like boxing out and her defense.

[mred]

Originally posted by soonerman:
Based on the WNBA's treatment of Angie Welle, I'm not sure I agree with that.

It's hard to say. I think Welle could have been a decent player in the WNBA, but I don't think she really cared. From what I understand, Welle gave the WNBA one shot, and when it didn't work out she wasn't too disappointed. For how good she was in college (2000 points and 1000 rebounds), she didn't seem to care that much about playing in the pros.

[grojc]

Soonerman, as far as conference stats, I don't think they resolve the dispute. Ohlde scores more, but KState has little depth. Stephens rebounds more and has more steals. Ohlde leads in blocks, but not by much. Indeed, I am suprised that Stacy's numbers are where they are. I'd say the numbers pretty much show they are both great centers. And Skibbes numbers match up pretty well with both these two. Your message seems to imply that the answer is revealed by the stats. Is that the answer?

[swok34]

From what I understand, Welle gave the WNBA one shot, and when it didn't work out she wasn't too disappointed. For how good she was in college (2000 points and 1000 rebounds), she didn't seem to care that much about playing in the pros.

Sherri Coale made a comment similar to this about Phylesha Whaley. I think they were talking that as far as camraderie, chemistry were concerned.....that college is about as good as it gets...and the WNBA takes on something different in that it's a "job"......and some players are not suited to be that kind of player.

[ISUbballfan]

Originally posted by swok34:
Sherri Coale made a comment similar to this about Phylesha Whaley. I think they were talking that as far as camraderie, chemistry were concerned.....that college is about as good as it gets...and the WNBA takes on something different in that it's a "job"......and some players are not suited to be that kind of player.

[/B]

Exactly. Angie likes working with kids. She is finishing her elementary education degree and assistant coaching for Volleball and basketball in the Ames schools.

[35TangoTango]

Originally posted by grojc:
Soonerman, as far as conference stats, I don't think they resolve the dispute. Ohlde scores more, but KState has little depth.

No, Skibbe scores more, and OSU has even less depth.

[dem]

Originally posted by soonerman:
I bet of Ohlde, Skibbe, and Stephens, Skibbe will be the highest draft pick (think about what kind of players the WNBA takes).



Okay, I'll take the bet. I bet that Ohlde goes first, and that she will play the 3 or 4 in the WNBA. The 5 is clearly not her natural nor favored position. Sometimes I think she'd prefer to play point guard!

[wbbcatfan]

Well the matchup between Ohlde and Skibee is over possibly for the rest of this year. This was my first time to see Skibee in person and would say that I am impressed with here talent. There stats are pretty comparable in this game with Ohlde having an edge in total point production. The big difference I saw in the two at least in this game is that Ohlde is much more active on both ends of the court. To sum it up in one word "hustle". As I stated before, I see some things that Skibee does well she just does not appear, at least in this game, to bring the "complete pacakage" that Ohlde delivers game after game after game. But when all is said and done they are both Kansas girls so either way we win http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif Right?

[cctigerfan]

The most impressive thing I saw with Skibbe is that she can nail the 10-15 footer when she is open. She is not as strong inside but that will come. OSU is on the rise. Good luck the rest of the year.