Cyclones take both weekly honors

[DblT81]

http://cyclones.ocsn.com/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/020303aaa.html


Iowa State swept the Big 12 Women's Basketball Player of the Week honors as Lindsey Wilson was named Player of the Week and Anne O'Neil was named Rookie of the Week in a vote of a media panel, the conference office announced Monday.

[Jennifer]

Congrats to both of them. I didn't even think about Anne O'Neil when pondering the Rookie of the Week. I've heard her name for so long, I forget she's actually a Rookie in this league!

[GrantFan14]

a tiny bit curious why Pierson didn't get it

[mred]

Originally posted by GrantFan14:
a tiny bit curious why Pierson didn't get it

Wilson averaged 31.5 points and 43.5 minutes in two games last week, including an upset over the #3 team in the nation. Two players in the conference had exceptional weeks, and (barring a tie) only one of them could win player of the week.



[This message has been edited by mred (edited 02-03-2003).]

[textom]

"Iowa State swept the Big 12 Women's Basketball Player of the Week honors as Lindsey Wilson was named Player of the Week and Anne O'Neil was named Rookie of the Week in a vote of a media panel, the conference office announced Monday."

I didn't make this up. It's a direct quote from the official Big 12 press release: http://big12sports.ocsn.com/sports/w-baskbl/spec-rel/020303aaa.html

I find the notion of lumping freshmen, transfers from other four-year schools and transfers from junior colleges into the same category ridiculous.

Anne O'Neill, a sophomore, was named to the Big 10 Conference all-freshman team two years ago before transferring to ISU. Texas' Jamie Carey, a junior, was the Pac 10 Freshman of the Year at Stanford two years ago. Oklahoma's Maria Villarroel, a junior, was a first team junior college All American. Apparently, they are all lumped together with freshmen such as Erin Grant, Chelsi Welch and Nina Norman.

Am I the only one who thinks it absurd that Jamie Carey might be named Rookie of the year in two different conferences, the second one two years after the first? Or that Anne O'Neill might be named to the Big 12 all freshman team, two years after she was named to the Big 10 all freshman team? They and other non-freshmen are fine players, but they are NOT freshmen.

IMO, if they are going to call someone a freshman, someone eligible for freshman of the week and freshman of the year honors, the player should be in her first year of eligibility, either a true freshman or a red-shirt freshman. That's the DEFINITION of "freshman," isn't it: in the first of her four years of eligibility?

[DblT81]

Tom, I think Rookie awards are solely for the weekly season recognition. I believe the year end award is truly a Freshman of the Year for which O'Neil, Carey, et al will not be eligible.

I've thought about your question and here is how I settled it in my mind. Not too many freshmen get that many minutes, so you might have a freshman picked for a weekly honor that frankly didn't have such a special week. Also, the league newcomers might not be recognized much by the media voters especially early in the season and their great performances might be shuffled behind a veteren who hasn't had as good a week but might be known more by the voters. By the end of the season, the JUCO's and transfers will have had their chance to make an impression and will only be considered for Player of the year and the All B12 teams.

That's my guess.

[mred]

Originally posted by DblT81:
Tom, I think Rookie awards are solely for the weekly season recognition. I believe the year end award is truly a Freshman of the Year for which O'Neil, Carey, et al will not be eligible. <snip> By the end of the season, the JUCO's and transfers will have had their chance to make an impression and will only be considered for Player of the year and the All B12 teams.


You are halfway correct. There is no "Rookie of the Year" award. There is a "Freshman of the year" award which is only for players classified as freshmen. However, there is also a "Newcomer of the year" award as well, which is only for transfers.

[swok34]

BU freshman Sophia Young continues to lead all rebounders with 9.3 per game. A freshman has never finished the season as the top rebounder in the Big 12 or former Big Eight and Southwest Conferences.

I think this is a pretty big accomplishment and with her scoring numbers, would get my vote for leading FOY. Also looks to lead all freshmen with steals, and is second in blocks....wow.

[DblT81]

Sophia Young is an outstanding young player and she may well be the FOY but I would only consider conference game statistics in coming to that conclusion.

Baylor's atrociously poor non-conference schedule allowed them to pad the stats a bit.

In conf only games, Chesli Welch is the top freshman scorer. Schreiber, Stephens, Unrau and Skibbe have as many or more rebounds than Young.

Young is still the first freshman on the list in several categories and leads the conference in fg %, but her stats are not nearly so prominent in conference only games.

[swok34]

Actually, she looks pretty good in conference stat's, too....
taking only the freshmen into consideration.

I don't know... averaging 12.9 points, 8.7 rebounds, 1.57 blocked shots, 2.14 steals per game while shooting .606 percent are pretty good numbers for a freshmen.

[Redbear]

But for that convenient rule that you have to quit playing when you get five fouls, I think Wilson might still be scoring against my Bears. She was awesome Saturday.

[spooky]

Sophia's stats are very similar between conference and non-conference (major categories only)

Non-conf - 23 minutes, 11.4 points, 9.7 rebounds
Conference - 26 minutes, 12.9 points, 8.7 rebounds

No one argues that Baylor's schedule was weak, but if you are
going to take that in as a major factor against her, then you have to consider numerous other factors as well, such as fewer minutes ( around 5 or so less than Erin Grant or Chelsi Welch, didn't have time to check anyone else). And lest we forget, she did play the first 5 games or so with her broken left wrist in a cast.
Considering that her numbers are as good or better in conference than non-conference, and the other factors, i don't think the schedule can be held against her at all.

[doubleT]

Comparing the numbers, I think Pierson deserved it...but I guess it's time Wilson got some recognition too. Pierson's stats are equal or better than Wilson's, yet Pierson played less minutes...

here's the averages over those 2 games:

Mins: Wilson 43.5, Pierson 28.5
Pts: Wilson 31.5, Pierson 30.5
FG%: Pierson 78%, Wilson 51%
FT%: Pierson 79%, Wilson 75%
TOs: Wilson 5.5! Pierson 1
Rebs: Pierson 7, Wilson 2.5
Asts: Wilson 3.5, Pierson 2.5
Stls: Pierson 1.5, Wilson 1
Blks: Pierson 1.5, Wilson 0

so now let's take into account each statistic compared to the number of minutes they played. Pierson averaged 15 minutes less per game!!!

then take into account the competition. granted isu beat #3 KSU by 5, but KSU was not playing up to their potential with their injuries. It took ISU two overtimes to beat BU. Tech beat Mizzou by 34 at home and KU by 27 on the road mainly because of Pierson's first half performances. ISU lost to the same Mizzou team by 31 at home and barely beat the same KU squad by 2 at home.

take it for what it's worth, but I think Pierson deserved to win the award again. nothing I can do about it tho, so congrats to wilson for snagging the award. Looking forward to the game in Lubbock this weekend http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

[Lone Star Grizzly]

I agree that the weekly recognition awards should be separated as they are for the end-of-year awards. I think freshman of the week and newcomer of the week would be appropriate.

As far as Young's stats being "padded", I think this is a reach. I do not know all the in and outs of why Baylor's nonconference schedule was built as it was, but I do know that if you lose 61% of your scoring, 54% of your rebounding, 54% of your minutes, and have an unproven point guard, you do not schedule UCONN, DUKE, and TENN. This is especially true when you factor in the conference war.

Young's conference and season stats are very similar:
Overall vs Conference
11.9 scoring 12.9
9.3 rebounding 8.7
.572 fg% .606
2.11 steals 2.14
1.47 blocks 1.57


I see the freshman of the year award going to Young, Welch, or Grant. IMO, Young should get the award.

[This message has been edited by Lone Star Grizzly (edited 02-04-2003).]

[This message has been edited by Lone Star Grizzly (edited 02-04-2003).]

[mred]

so now let's take into account each statistic compared to the number of minutes they played. Pierson averaged 15 minutes less per game!!!

Exactly. Pierson got plenty of time to rest on the bench, while Wilson played top-notch basketball despite playing a full 40 minutes vs. KSU and playing 47 of 50 minutes vs BU (she fouled out with 2 minutes left in OT #2).

then take into account the competition. granted isu beat #3 KSU by 5, but KSU was not playing up to their potential with their injuries. It took ISU two overtimes to beat BU. Tech beat Mizzou by 34 at home and KU by 27 on the road mainly because of Pierson's first half performances. ISU lost to the same Mizzou team by 31 at home and barely beat the same KU squad by 2 at home.

I'm not sure what ISU's performance vs. KU and MU have to do with this. What I do know is KSU is better than MU and BU is better than KU. Therefore, ISU played a tougher schedule.

take it for what it's worth, but I think Pierson deserved to win the award again. nothing I can do about it tho, so congrats to wilson for snagging the award. Looking forward to the game in Lubbock this weekend http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

Two players played incredible basketball this past week. Either could have been POtW. One was.

It'll take a small miracle for ISU to beat Tech in Lubbock. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

[doubleT]

Actually, Pierson scored 20-something points in the first half...sat on the bench for over 15 minutes of the 2nd. So, had Plenette stayed in the game for 40+ minutes like Wilson, her numbers would have been obscene. Pierson did not play 5 minutes here, four minutes there, another five here to give her the rest on the bench you speak of. She did her damage early and gave the younger kids playing time for the rest of the game...

My point of including KU and Mizzou was because those were the two opponents Tech defeated that week. I knew someone would bring up the fact that Tech played a weaker schedule so I wanted to point out that ISU had lost to one by a huge margin and barely defeated the other...

and you're saying that KSU is better than MU... but wait...KSU lost to ISU and ISU lost to MU at home by 31 pts ... anyone can lose on any given night and without Pierson's performance, Tech certainly could have lost to MU

[This message has been edited by doubleT (edited 02-05-2003).]

[35TangoTango]

Just my crotchey ole' opinion, but the direction this thread took paints a very egotistical, ungracious, self-centered picture of Texas Tech fans.

[doubleT]

ungracious? self-centered?

you're funny!

you are right about one thing...I am a Texas Tech fan...not an ISU fan, so would it not make sense for me to express my opinion that Pierson played better and deserved to win POW? If you think otherwise, that's fine...but as a Tech fan, I am not an ISU supporter...does that make me self-centered?

I'm gonna support my girls...not another team's...that's part of being a fan...

If Pierson had something like nine turnovers in a game or some other ugly stat like that, I don't think I'd make the same argument for her...but wait, Wilson did have nine TOs in one of those games...my bad!

Pierson played near perfection on all sides of the ball and I think she deserved recognition for that...plain and simple

[This message has been edited by doubleT (edited 02-05-2003).]

[doubleT]

Hoopla points:

Pierson: 73 (first place for both sessions)
Wilson: 42

I've made my point...either you agree with me, or you don't!

and just for the record, at this point I would have to say that Young is the front-runner for FOY, despite how much I love Grant. She has some nice numbers...unless Grant increses her point and rebounding averages, her assist avg will not win her FOY...

[JohnHenry]

News flash: Pierson is very tall and athletic, and takes nearly ALL of her shots within 10 ft. Wilson is good deal shorter and dare I say has pretty good range: 6-10 from 3 vs. BU, 9-17 from field + 5 assists vs. KSU. Wilson carrying team on her back, Pierson surrounded by top talent to help.

Not to take anything away from Pierson, who has indeed turned it up a notch and had a monster week (albeit against lesser teams), but she'll get hers.

[DblT81]

Gosh a mighty people. My post about Young was solely in response to swok's statement that Young is leading the conference in rebounds and she was the leading freshman scorer. She isn't the leading rebounder or freshman scorer when you consider only conference stats.

Baylor did play a super soft non conference schedule and as a result they did pad the stats. At the end of non conference Baylor was in the top 10 nationally in almost every NCAA stat category. Baylor is not a top 10 team. Any fans, other than Baylor, want to disagree with that?

I said Sophia Young may well be the Freshman of the year. The fact that Young is the leading freshman in most statistical categories in conference games demonstrates she is probably the top freshman in this league. I just don't think it is fair for Baylor or any Baylor player to get special recognition for numbers compiled while playing

263 Princeton
172 Alcorn St
304 Texas Southern
175 San Jose St
69 Montana St
290 SE Louisiana
286 Ark-Pine Bluff
166 Grambling
282 TX-Pan American
92 @ UCLA
294 Mercer
162 North Texas

with 8 of the 12 games in Waco.

Give Young the Freshman of Year award. Put her on the All Big 12 team. Only do it because of her play in conference.

[BEAR SKIN]

DoubleT:

"It took ISU two overtimes to beat BU." When was that?

A Rod was probably the best player in the Am League, but not the MVP -- rightly so.

[35TangoTango]

Originally posted by soonerman:
Just my crotchey ole' opinion, but the direction this thread took paints a very egotistical, ungracious, self-centered picture of Texas Tech fans.

I was surprised at the number of posts on this, since any reply by a TT fan serves to drive my point home.

First, let me say that I am a huge, Pierson fan. I have been considering a starting a thread about mid-season choices for Player of the Year, and why IN SPITE OF THE STATS, Pierson is my clear choice. I also am aware of Pierson's Hoopla points this week, as I have been one of the principal recipients!

That said, sometimes there's more to it than stats. For the week in question, Pierson emerged from her team role and had two great performances. No one can diminish those performances, but they were acheived against teams not nearly as good as Tech (and who is?). MU and KU could hardly make game plans sole to stop Pierson, since Tech has so many other weapons.

ISU on the other hand faced two teams clearly better than they were (one was #3 in the nation), and those teams knew in advance that all they had to do to win was stop Wilson. In spite of that, Lindsey put that mediocre team on her back, faced defenses stacked against her personally, and carried them to upset victory - twice!! How can ANYONE fail to appreciate the enormity of those performaces? How can ANYONE even HINT that those performances were not worthy of Player of the Week? And the KSU win has huge conference implications. Because of Lindsey's performance, for example, all Tech has to do is win out and they will be in sole possession of the Conference Championship!

I'm certainly no ISU fan, but to me anyone who even questions Lindsey's right to POY for that week is indeed so wrapped up in themselves and their team that they are unable to appreciate what anyone else does! But that's just my opinion.

[Jennifer]

Originally posted by soonerman:
ISU on the other hand faced two teams clearly better than they were (one was #3 in the nation), and those teams knew in advance that all they had to do to win was stop Wilson. In spite of that, Lindsey put that mediocre team on her back, faced defenses stacked against her personally, and carried them to upset victory - twice!!

I pretty much agree with your opinion here, but didn't ISU end up losing to Baylor in 2OT?

Hmmm...and to add more fuel to this thread, your mentioning POY brings these comments: My pick would be Wecker or Pierson at this point.

[35TangoTango]

Originally posted by Jennifer:
I pretty much agree with your opinion here, but didn't ISU end up losing to Baylor in 2OT?

Oops, yes! But only after (because?) Wilson had fouled out.

[doubleT]

Sorry Bearskin...forgot that it was Baylor who won the double OT game...my apologies...