ISU/KSU

[mred]

ISU is currently down 54-41 with about 10 minutes remaining. The ISU defense has yet to figure out how to stop KSU. Wecker's play on the boards has led the ISU announcers to compare her to Megan Taylor on multiple occasions, which is a huge compliment.

[mred]

ISU was down as much as 14 but pulled to within 5. Right now, the KSU lead is back up to 8 with about 3-and-a-half minutes left in the game.

ISU needs to start coming into games with a little better play. They overcame large second-half deficits in both San Diego Tournament games, and I hoped we had gotten out of that phase. I guess not.

[KSUron]

Well ISU now has a problem. They have to commit mutiple fouls to try to get the ball since they had only been called for about 3 until now. 62-57 KSU @ 1:41. 62-60 @ 1:10 Koehn to line to shot 2. First good second good. 64-60 @ 1:08

[mred]

I fugured ISU would have a problem with KSU if they shot the ball well. They did.

[KSUron]

Originally posted by KSUron:
Well ISU now has a problem. They have to commit mutiple fouls to try to get the ball since they had only been called for about 3 until now. 62-57 KSU @ 1:41. 62-60 @ 1:10 Koehn to line to shot 2. First good second good. 64-60 @ 1:08

20 seconds left KSU time out. KSU 64-62.

[mred]

ISU managed to get it down to two near the end, but KSU hit its free throws down the stretch. Final score: 69-63.

Silver lining? Likely 7 Big XII schools in the top 25 next week.

[This message has been edited by mred (edited 01-02-2002).]

[KSUron]

69-63 KSU!!!!!!!!!! Yeah!!!!!! WAY KOOL!

mred, I think we both just got a little older. Pay backs are heck. We will be expecting one at Bramlage. See ya there.

[This message has been edited by KSUron (edited 01-02-2002).]

[hoopjnky]

Great game, even if the K-State announcer is a little tough to listen to after awhile. (Who is Coach Feeney? Shirley Feeney's dad?)

How wonderfully competitive things are going to be in the Big 12!

[mred]

I lost the ISU feed for a while and had to listen to the KSU announcer. He mispronounced no fewer than three ISU players in the two or three minutes I listened to him.

[Press]

Wow, nice game KSU. A team of youngsters with nothing to lose can sometimes be very hard to beat.

[KSUron]

Originally posted by mred:
I lost the ISU feed for a while and had to listen to the KSU announcer. He mispronounced no fewer than three ISU players in the two or three minutes I listened to him.

Well, maybe if you guys would buy him a "Beemer". Hey, look on the bright side, your an ISU fan. Ed O'Donnell is the play by play guy I have all the time. Ed seems to be a very likable guy and I guess he has announced KSU WBB for as long as they have had it. The contract is with a new radio network for next year.

[This message has been edited by KSUron (edited 01-02-2002).]

[mred]

Originally posted by Press:
Wow, nice game KSU. A team of youngsters with nothing to lose can sometimes be very hard to beat.

Just wait a year or two. Then they'll be a group of veterans with quite a bit to lose. They'll be even harder to beat.

[CyFanRick]

Well, I hate to see my cyclones lose, especially at home, but the low percentage they shot will not win very many games. Kansas State played a heck of a good game on top of it. ISU will need to figure out how to not get down so far at the beginning of the games. This is just a sign of what is to come in the Big 12......a bunch of good teams that are going to fight to the last second of the game. It will definately be a good season.

[carolann]

The revolution has begun!

There should definitely be 7 Big 12 teams in the top 25 next week. Also, the rise of KSU could help even out the current conference strength between north and south by giving the northern schools another tough team that everyone has to play twice.

[mred]

Trend:
ISU vs. Auburn: ISU down 61-52 with 7:04 left.
ISU vs. San Diego: ISU down 53-38 with 8:44 left.
ISU vs. KSU: ISU down 14 with around 10 minutes left.

http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/isu.gif better snap out of this soon, because there aren't too many Big XII teams that'll let ISU back into the game with such a large deficit. http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/ksu.gif proved that.

[KSUron]

ISU is still ISU and Coach Fennelly will have them running on all cylinders real quick. NU will have a job to do Saturday.

Coach Patterson showed some real smarts IMHO before the game. She never took the team home after the Loyola tourney in Baltimore on the 30th. They just took a charter flight to Ames and spent the New Year holiday there. KSU was probably tucked into their beds in Ames well before ISU got back from San Diego. K-State's boy friends don't live in Ames either. The kids work hard and I know they wanted this one bad.

[carolann]

MRED (and anyone else with an opionion http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif)

I noticed that Welle was 5 of 7 from the field and 5-8 from the free throw line. Wilson was 8 of 18 from the field. I noticed something similar in an earlier ISU box score. I think Lindsey Wilson is great but does ISU think Welle is getting enough shots?

[mred]

Originally posted by carolann:
MRED (and anyone else with an opionion http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif)

I noticed that Welle was 5 of 7 from the field and 5-8 from the free throw line. Wilson was 8 of 18 from the field. I noticed something similar in an earlier ISU box score. I think Lindsey Wilson is great but does ISU think Welle is getting enough shots?

Teams are really keying on Welle this season. Welle is virtually automatic with the ball near the bucket, so many teams are trying to keep the ball away from her. I only listened on the radio, so I can't say this first hand. I guarantee ISU would be getting the ball inside every time down court if they could. They need to figure out how to get the ball to her a lot more, especially when you look at ISU's shooting percentage against KSU.

[KSUron]

Originally posted by mred:
Teams are really keying on Welle this season. Welle is virtually automatic with the ball near the bucket, so many teams are trying to keep the ball away from her. I only listened on the radio, so I can't say this first hand. I guarantee ISU would be getting the ball inside every time down court if they could.

with the same caviat as mred my understanding is that KSU had Wecker on Welle a lot. I am sure that the KSU intent was to use both Wecker and Ohlde to deny Welle the ball. My attitude was that if Ohlde could match Welle's production that we would be in good shape. Both teams could cry woulda coulda shoulda re outside shooting. I doubt that Koehn will go 2 for 10 very often and you could say the same for Cofield. I would have to guess that defense had a lot to do with it.

[KSUron]

One fun (or scary) thing going into this game was that you knew both teams were very capable of going on big scoring runs. Thats a little of how this game played out, but both teams must have played strong defense. ISU can score in bunches and this year so can KSU. Either one, but especially ISU could have gone on another tear at any time. I think the game at Bramlage could be like this or the score could be much higher. And I don't want to have to bet on the outcome.

[schooner2]

KSU was at one time starting 4 freshman. By looking over past boxscores it appears Patterson has been looking for a 5th starter. First it was freshman Hanson. Then she tried Domenico and now she has gone with senior Kristen Rethman. Did Rethman start tonight? KSU only played 6 players all game, 4 of them freshman with freshman Madden coming off the bench I assume.

[dem]

Well, I saw it so I guess I should try to answer these questions.

Rethman did start. KSU played a very tough zone and ISU continuously struggled with it from every angle. Their first option -- the perimeter shot -- was not working well, as Gahan was in poor form and Wilson was hitting only sporadically. Meanwhile, Cofield couldn't hit at all and neither (early on) could any of the reserves.

In the first half, ISU did not seem to be focusing much on threading the needle into Welle, and when they did try, often enough, Ohlde or Wecker (or someone) snapped up the ball off a mediocre pass. (Wecker, by the way, is an absolutely outstanding athlete; almost unstoppable on the drive and can jump out of the gym for rebounds.) Sometimes Wilson would penetrate and put up a shot, more often someone would drive, kick it out, and someone else would miss a three. ISU had a total of one single two-point field goal when the first half was mostly gone.

ISU has not faced much zone this season (or ever, for obvious reasons) and when they do they always try first to break it with outside shots. Bottom line is, they are not really good, nor do they have very much practice, at getting the ball in to Welle against a collapsing zone. And now that their team three-point shooting is not nearly as deadly as in the past, this will likely to be an ongoing issue.

Late in the game, Iowa State's intense press and great bench play by Bremer brought them almost all the way back -- but this time, they couldn't finish the comeback.

Watching this game was very eerie. It was a lot like seeing Iowa State facing themselves in a mirror. KSU played and won this game the way ISU has done themselves innumerable times in the past -- tenacious zone defense, no-conscience shooting, and gutsy play from buzzer to buzzer. Great game by the KSU kids, bolstered by veteran Rethman. I expect them to do serious damage to the rest of the conference this season.

[This message has been edited by dem (edited 01-02-2002).]

[This message has been edited by dem (edited 01-03-2002).]

[KSUron]

Originally posted by schooner:
KSU was at one time starting 4 freshman. By looking over past boxscores it appears Patterson has been looking for a 5th starter. First it was freshman Hanson. Then she tried Domenico and now she has gone with senior Kristen Rethman. Did Rethman start tonight? KSU only played 6 players all game, 4 of them freshman with freshman Madden coming off the bench I assume.

Patterson started freshman Koehn at point, Senior Rethman at 2 or off guard, freshman Mahoney at the 3, freshman Wecker at the 4, and Sophomore Ohlde at the post. Freshman Kari Hanson has started the most games at point with Koehn at the 2, but Hanson is injured. Likewise freshman Chelsea Domenico has started at the point but she is also injured and can't play at all for awhile. Coach Patterson thinks her best move now is to move koehn to the point and start Rethman at the 2 until Hanson or Domenico can play again. Having point responsibility probably hurts Koehn's scoring some but she has played point in high school and I believe she also played the point on the USA Junior National Team.

[KSUron]

Originally posted by dem:
Well, I saw it so I guess I should try to answer these questions.

Thanks very much for your input. Its in many ways more informative than whats on the ISU and KSU sites.

[NorthForty]

I guess my input on the game last night was that yes K-State played very well and yes ISU did not get the ball to Welle enough. K-State did pack it in on Welle but there were still very good looks that were not noticed by the ISU guards. And when thay did pass it in they were weak passes. Teams are going to play match-up zone on ISU all year long until somebody can step up and hit an outside shot.

As for ISU's defense, it was pretty weak. Ohlde and Wecker (who is a complete stud) continuely got the ball down low in great position and scored at will. If K-State would have continued to pound inside they would have won by more. Welle in my book is not an All-American until she can play defense.

[mred]

Originally posted by NorthForty:
Welle in my book is not an All-American until she can play defense.

We can't have it both ways. She isn't particularly physical on defense, but this also usually keeps her out of foul trouble. Until we have someone solid to back her up, we can't afford to have her sitting out with foul trouble.

[Press]

Didn't ISU dare anyone to play zone on them last year since they had such good 3-point shooters? I know Taylor is gone, but I thought Wilson and Gahan were great from the outside. Is that not the case this year?

[mred]

ISU lost both Taylor and Junod, both deadly from 3pt range. Against KSU, Gahan and Wilson both shot poorly. Gahan is still shooting 47% (33-70) and Wilson is 37% (31-85) from behind the arc. It just happened that ISU missed their open shots against KSU.

[cycofan]

From the DM Register:

"I'm disappointed for our kids and fans, but if you tell me that we'll turn the ball over 13 times, we'll outrebound the other guy by seven, and we'll hold them to 69 points, you tell me that every single game and I'll take it right now. because we're not going to shoot 33 percent every game."

In my opinion, they had tired legs from the two overtime games, and jet-lag from the trip. Add to that the fact the KSU shot 51%, and the fact that we only lost by 6 is a miracle. Happier days ahead for Cyclone fans!

[dem]

Another point related to ISU's post defense last night: Ohlde is REALLY good. The Big XII freshman of the year last year might now be the second best post player in the conference. She has a deadly hook shot, moves well, and can jump HIGH. She is a handful for anyone to guard.

And Wecker, maybe, is even tougher.

[cyfanatic]

I am obviously a Cyclone fan, and there's little I can say that hasn't already been said. However, if it's any consolation, I'm glad we lost to a Big Twelve team. What's more, I think we knew we would have a tough time with KSU, and they are definitely underrated. I would look for them to break into the top 25 next week, and deservingly so. Long live the Big Twelve!