MICHIGAN STATE - duke

[Dale8R]

No thread? I've been too busy watching. EXCITEMENT!

[BearLady]

WOW! Michigan State knocks Duke out.

Not a happy return for Coach P.

[Dale8R]

I can't even imagine the pit of the stomach feeling for Duke and their coach.

Let's hear it for the Big 10, too. That most awful of conferences.

[swok34]

The NCAA has got to find a way to get these games off home courts. I would like to know what would have happened on a neutral court.

[ChipperF1]

"The NCAA has got to find a way to get these games off home courts. I would like to know what would have happened on a neutral court.

Good idea!!! Lets move the Oklahoma City regional to Sioux Falls. ;)

[Cyclones Rule]

The NCAA has got to find a way to get these games off home courts. I would like to know what would have happened on a neutral court.

Duke wins. Totally agree with swok on this one because a home court advantage is just that an advantage.

[LadyBuff]

It's done for attendance, correct? The home court advantage is why I quit watching Tennessee and UConn. They always play close to home.

Congrats Michigan State.

[ChipperF1]

The way MSU outplayed Duke, that game could have been at Cameron and it wouldn't have mattered. Michigan State played better tonight and they won.

It's March. It doesn't matter where or when the game is. This is the championship. Win or go home. No excuses offered. None accepted.


As for Tennessee and UConn...When the tournament was top 16 earned home seed, the common denominator was that they earned it with their performance.

[36Cord810]

Home court tarnishes every facet of the tourney.

[Dale8R]

Nope, don't buy it. MSU was THE team tonight. If a team is good and knows they are good, they can win anywhere. Duke just wasn't that team tonight.

[Dale8R]

Now I do have a choice, I could be watching the L-L game. But I'm not. :rolleyes:

[40ishHorn]

I'm pretty sure home court advantage had a little bit to do with MSU's run in the tourney so far.

[Scamp]

Tonight I'll bet MSU played in part for revenge against Coach P. Remember, she signed with MSU, then ran off with Duke and more money. :p

[BeBe]

Tonight I'll bet MSU played in part for revenge against Coach P. Remember, she signed with MSU, then ran off with Duke and more money. :p
I totally agree.... MSU came out with a big dose of extra motivation. I am SO glad to see Duke get sent home.

[ChipperF1]

"If a team is good and knows they are good, they can win anywhere.

That's what its all about in March.

[Ryan Hyatt]

As long as top seeded teams like Auburn or Duke have to go on the road and play on other teams home floors, the tournament has lost integrity. ESPN has been ceded far too much power and the coaches need to step up and demand changes. As of now the current set-up creates a fraudulent tournament and it needs to go back to the top four seeds in each region hosting. Make the regular season count for something. Make teams earn the right to host.
Hyatt

[ChipperF1]

Mr. Hyatt,

ESPN does not make those decisions. The NCAA does.

[Ryan Hyatt]

ESPN is the reason for predetermined sites.

[Dale8R]

I was just going to say that. Blame the NCAA, which means blame the people in control of such. I DO think if you are going to give it to a particular team, then give it to the 16 seeds. That should wipe out the audience in a hurry. :D

Nah, just kidding. Until we get to the point where you can fill ANY gym, you may as well give it to the top seeds.

[ChipperF1]

That is actually wrong.

The NCAA wanted to go to predetermined sites to make the tournament more neutral. It was their decision. ESPN's input was noted, but when it came down to it, it was Indianapolis' call and they made it..And they make all of the calls. Indianapolis dictates to Bristol, not the other way around.

[ChipperF1]

I've always liked the top seeds hosting. To me, its gets you the attendance in the ballpark you want and it really adds something to the regular season. As far as the integrity of the tournament being "tainted". I just don't agree. If you want to be a champion, you'll beat God in Heaven and Satan in Hell on back-to-back days.

In just about every other sport in the world, winning a championship means you have to go into the other's team house and win at some point.

[Ryan Hyatt]

Chipper, you've always got great stuff, but on this one you're just a bit off. In order to continue the contract with the tourney, ESPN demanded and got predetermined sites. They said they couldn't get every game televised with so little time between announcement and game day. (doesn't seem to be a problem for them with the men's NIT though does it, and that's just 48 hours in some cases, so that argument rings hollow.)

There are some within the NCAA that were sure if they partnered with ESPN that the game would get more play as far as regular season games and on sportscenter and that it would be a goldmine for womens' basketball. That hasn't happened.

In the meantime the integrity of the tourney has been compromised as some teams have to go play on home floors as top seeds and some don't. Wonder how that Baylor game would have turned out in front of a packed gym in South Dakota?

From a competitive stand-point you just can't have some teams playing on home floors and some not. It just isn't right. Either everyone hosts amongst the top seeds or no one does, but it can't continue this way.
It isn't growing the game, it isn't doing right by the players and it certainly doesn't create the atmosphere we all want to see around the game.
You say that to be a champion you'll go through anything and win anywhere, and that's true. But for it to be a true championship everyone has to be playing by the same rules.

If you think for a minute that ESPN World Headquarters in Bristol wouldn't have imploded if the Duke men had to play at Texas last Saturday as a 2 seed on the men's side and lost, you're crazy. Dick Vitale's head would have exploded and congressional hearings would have been called.

I've been involved in the game too long to idly sit back and watch it compromise itself in the name of "exposure". What we have right now doesn't work and someone, somewhere needs to be big enough to admit mistakes were made and do what needs to be done.

Ok, I'm off my soap-box and back to my regularly scheduled insomnia.

Good luck to the Big 12, I like it when they have to actually talk about teams in fly-over country.
Hyatt

[Scamp]

EAST LANSING -- So how is that dream job going for you, Coach P.? You having fun?

For too long, Michigan State wasn't good enough for Joanne P. McCallie. Tuesday night, Michigan State was too good for her. ...

t the end of the 2007 season, McCallie secretly interviewed with Florida. She talked to LSU. She was obviously interested in going to Texas.

I think she even filled out an online application to coach the University of Phoenix.

MSU offered her a contract extension worth $500,000 per year. She signed -- then bolted three weeks later, when the Duke job opened up.

This wasn't just an ugly exit. It was a long, ugly exit. ...

http://www.freep.com/article/20090325/COL22/903250448/1048/SPORTS/Coach+McCallie+s+new+job+isn+t+quite+so+dreamy+now This is a must-read column! :rotflol:

[BenEClone]

I didn't watch this game and haven't seen MSU play. Their website roster lists Allyssa DeHaan as 6 feet and 9 inches from top to bottom. Is that accurate?

[Dale8R]

Uh, yes. I'll try to find a picture for you. I think I know where to find a good one.

http://www.statenews.com/media/00/00/03/29/32981_KDR_BKW_WIN2_032409_big.jpg

Allyssa DeHaan and head coach Suzy Merchant

Source: this story http://www.statenews.com/index.php/article/2009/03/suzys_signature_win

[JK]

I predicted this "upset" (as well as Rutgers/Auburn) the moment I saw the brackets. I figured UTSA was going to give Baylor a good game as well. But Tennessee falling in the first round totally shocked me!:eek: I was also kinda surprised to see Notre Dame bow out in the first round on their home court. This tournament has been a little more interesting than past ones.

[tx4OU]

http://graphics.fansonly.com/photos/schools/msu/sports/w-baskbl/auto_action/1227477.jpeghttp://www.patriciaebauer.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/20071129_sissy-spacek.gif



:eek:



:D

[swok34]

Good idea!!! Lets move the Oklahoma City regional to Sioux Falls. ;)

OU does not play at the Ford Center. That is not our home court.

I would be fine if Michigan State and Duke had played at an arena 20 miles down the road on a court that Michigan State does not play 95% of their games.

Mred posted the best solution in another thread: apply the same hosting rules to sub-regionals as are required for regionals.

[Tiff-B12]

Make the regular season count for something. Make teams earn the right to host.
Hyatt

I have to agree here, great point, simple things like that change entire tournaments...

[DblT81]

The NAIA holds a championship tournament at one site with 32 teams, all in Jackson, Tennessee. The two teams in Tuesday night's championship game were both from Tennessee. I'm guessing the other 30 teams were not amused. Particularly the other two semi-finalist teams that were from Oklahoma.



Anyway back to the NCAA D1 tournament...

The biggest complaints with the old format of top 4 seeds in each region EARN the host position were:

1) Fewer upsets in the first two rounds than the men's tournament because the top seeds were playing on their court. So it was mostly the top 16 teams advancing to the S16 with a rare upset here and there. Hard for the upstart programs to get a foothold with recruiting or anything else when the top 20 programs had "control" and got most of the year end exposure (and most of the year end wins).

2) ESPN might not continue to cover the games due to the logistics of setting up at 16 different sites.

So to address the above....

1)

At first the women were going to go to 8 super subregional sites like the men. But the NCAA assumed (correctly) they had to have a local team tie in or they would not get much attendance. Texas Tech had hosted many years in a row as a Top 4 seed and Sharp wanted that to continue to happen with the predetermined sites. Discussion around the Tech program was that Lubbock would not qualify for one of the 8 super sub regional sites because a lack of quality hotel rooms for 8 teams plus their entourages.

I may not recall this correctly, but I thought Tech bid and did get chosen to be one of the 8 sites for 2009 but later it was changed to 16 sites when they determined that 8 sites was not going to work.

The problem with this set up is in locations where the home team didn't make it (Lubbock, Albq., etc)- pitiful attendance - or where the home team had a low seed (Michigan, New Jersey)- unfair advantage.

If they go back to the old system of earning a host position, attendance may improve but does it go back and heighten the unfair advantage problem?

Were the games more closely contested this year on more neutral courts (Albuquerque, Lubbock, Chattanooga)? I don't have time to do an analysis but I bet Baylor and UNC would say yes. And then So Dakota St would challenge that it wasn't a neutral court...

Would Florida State beat Arizona St at home? I kind of like putting pressure on the top seeds to win on a neutral court. Does it matter that it happens in front of a couple thousand instead of six thousand?

The real problem is that the predetermined sites could be home courts of the teams that make the tournament. The problem this year, as Hyatt pointed out, is the inconsistency that some teams played on neutral courts and some did not. To me that was an unfair advantage to Notre Dame, Mich St, Rutgers, Connecticut, Maryland, LSU, Ohio St., Iowa, San Diego St, ... But at least the unfair advantage was to 9 (did I miss anybody?) instead of 16.



2) The NCAA and ESPN still give the women crappy time slots so as not to overlap the men's tournament and they still show poker and billiards on most of their related channels because the women's game does not financially justify otherwise.

So little changed with respect to TV exposure. They talk a good game, but coverage is pretty much about the same by ESPN that it was in the late 1990's. Wrap around coverage is a joke because they really don't do it regionally. They have one national game with small bits of local coverage of the other games. And the national game is usually the last one I would choose to watch. :mad:

Perhaps there would be no TV by ESPN if there wasn't predetermined sites in the first rounds.




I guess the NCAA has to decide how do you grow the game? It is the same question they have faced for 20 years. Sell more tickets to the tournament and have a few teams dominate? Or sell few tickets, give avenues for upsets and take the TV money?

I like Swok's idea of banning the home court of schools as a predetermined site. That means schools like Baylor or Tech couldn't host in the same city. They would have to host in Dallas, San Antonio or Houston. But Tech and UT did a co-host in Dallas once and that wasn't so bad. (was that part of an 8 team super sub system??) Clearly more neutral than the Erwin Center or the USA.

As a current fan of a team that is on the outside trying to get back in, I much prefer a chance at a more neutral site even if I can't go to the games in Lubbock. Now in a couple of years when Tech is back on top :D, I reserve the right to go back to the opinion that the top 4 seeds have earned the right and should be rewarded...

[ChipperF1]

"I would be fine if Michigan State and Duke had played at an arena 20 miles down the road on a court that Michigan State does not play 95% of their games.

But UConn playing at XL Center isn't okay, right?

[wwi_flying_ace_17]

I would like to extend my personal thanks to ESPN for making me watch A&M thrash Minnesota instead of letting me watch a competitive game and then making me call my cable company at the end of the game because the channel quit working :mad:

[UCONN@BIG12]

But UConn playing at XL Center isn't okay, right?

Ha! Ha! He! He! :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol: :rotflol:

[UCONN@BIG12]

I would like to extend my personal thanks to ESPN for making me watch A&M thrash Minnesota instead of letting me watch a competitive game and then making me call my cable company at the end of the game because the channel quit working :mad:

You all are FUNNY!!!:rotflol:

[wwi_flying_ace_17]

You all are FUNNY!!!:rotflol:

Not sure the cable company was laughing too much. The guy I spoke said they were getting all sorts of calls from people and they were trying to get it fixed before the SDSU game.

On a side note, hopefully we keep getting competitive games. Hard to believe, but my men's bracket came out more accurately than my women's bracket.

[swok34]

But UConn playing at XL Center isn't okay, right?

Does UConn play 90 - 95% of their games at the XL Center? If they do, then no it's not ok.

[Dale8R]

McCallie avoids lame excuse
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/tracy_schultz/03/25/second.round/?eref=sircrc

After all, home court didn't save No. 7 Notre Dame from getting knocked off by No. 10 Minnesota. It didn't keep from LSU from losing in the second round, either. If the Blue Devils couldn't defend their No. 1 seed in East Lansing, how would they expect to get through a potential matchup with Stanford just a few miles away in Berkeley? How could Auburn get past Oklahoma in Oklahoma City, which just hosted the Big 12 tournament?

[Dale8R]

There are still a lot of stories coming out of Michigan, most of them entertaining. Here's one from the Free Press. Also check out the links at the right side for more.

MSU's whirlwind run goes on
http://www.freep.com/article/20090326/SPORTS07/903260374/1048/SPORTS/MSU+s+whirlwind+run+goes+on

It might also be known as the night second-year coach Suzy Merchant took sole ownership of the program, and that moment occurred long before No. 9 seed MSU knocked off No. 1 seed Duke, 63-49, before 5,179 fans in the Breslin Center Tuesday night.

That moment came 15 minutes before tipoff when Merchant walked onto the court. Applause began to build as she left the tunnel and grew louder as she neared the MSU bench. Soon, people around the arena were standing and cheering, and that was when most people assumed the Spartans were about to be drilled by McCallie's team.

"I won't forget that," Merchant said Wednesday morning. "I started to get choked up. My feeling was: 'I know this team wants this game and I don't want to disappoint these people.' "

Ironically, Merchant is familiar with the Cyclones, or at least their coach, Bill Fennelly, who coached at Toledo when Merchant played at Central Michigan.

"When I first got the job at Saginaw Valley I called two people," Merchant said. "One was Jane Roman, who was his assistant at Toledo and was at our game last night. The other was him. I wanted to talk about the 2-3 zone. It beat us when I was a player. Sometimes, when you're kind of an underdog and don't have the horses, you can get people in that zone to do some things that give you a chance."