Programs in the red

[mred]

This is an interesting list of the sports most in the red. I wonder why football and WBB are the only two sports represented.

1 Tulane football - deficit $3,622,860
2 Texas Christian Football - deficit $3,112,055
3 Houston football - deficit $2,998,933
4 Rice football - deficit $2,722,212
5 Akron football - deficit $2,451,150
6 Temple football - deficit $2,237,869
7 Texas women's basketball - deficit $1,814,297
8 Ohio University football - deficit $1,776,602
9 State University of New York football - deficit $1,688,457
10 Bowling Green football - deficit $1,604,850
11 Kent State football - deficit $1,602,853
12 Southern Cal women's basketball - deficit $1,508,725
13 Rutgers women's basketball - deficit $1,507,057
14 Rutgers football - deficit $1,504,505
15 Ball State football - deficit $1,494,562
16 Virginia Tech women's basketball - deficit $1,477,442
17 Notre Dame women's basketball - deficit $1,443,424
18 Nebraska women's basketball - deficit $1,404,692
19 Arkansas State football - deficit $1,404,692
20 Kansas State women's basketball - deficit $1,399,548

[35TangoTango]

IMHO:

Football because at some schools you just have to have it, whether or not you can afford it.

WBB is a long neglected and suddenly popular sport. If you look at the schools mentioned, they all are (or want to be)rising basketball powers. These deficits are more in the nature of capital investments (build it and they will come). Looking at K-State's attendance figures, you can see how that investment can pay off.

OU would undoubtably be on that list, except that their unbelievably fabulous new facilities were totally donated!

[DBLTFarmer]

Interesting find. Im surprised at some of the teams with deficits. Texas really surprised me since they have the 2nd or third highest attendance in the Big 12. I really would have thought UT's womens program would be in the black.

[35TangoTango]

I thought Texas' attendance was much more middle of the pack - certainly nothing to rival Tech or ISU. Maybe some of those who kept track of all the million fan stats will know the answer.

I am guessing that UT has greatly increased their WBB spending in the last couple of years.

[swok34]

I don't know what the numbers look like now, but I saw a report that was done back in 1997/1998....and one of the only schools where women's basketball actually "breaks even" or makes money was Connecticut, maybe even Tennessee.

Football carries a whole lot of the load for the majority of programs....that includes men's basketball at some schools.

In the final four last year, Connecticut women's basketball did not receive a dime for winning the championship. The OU men's basketball team who lost in the semifinal rounds at the Final Four even received some money for being there....so how can women's sports truly "catch up?" when there is no TV revenue available as there is for men's football. Do the men's basketball teams receive revenue for TV?

I, too, wonder why they listed football and women's basketball...
why not throw men's basketball into the puzzle?

[Bob_Ballew]

According to an article today in the Waco Tribune-Herald by John Maher, "women's basketball is the biggest money loser of the more than 38 men's and women's Division I-A sports tracked by the NCAA." The article indicates that the average Division I-A women's basketball team, with only 15 scholarship athletes, was $711,000 in the red. No other sport except women's ice hockey, which was played by only four schools, averaged a loss of more than $400,000. The article goes on to say that the women's tournament, which has lost money for the NCAA in the past, hasn't provided payouts for conferences or teams and won't under the new 11-year, $200 million deal that includes rights to championships in 20 other collegiate sports. TV will give the men's basketball tournament 31 times that, $6.2 billion, during the same time.

"The one school that makes a real, healthy profit is the University of Connecticut. It cleared $1.26 million in 2001, and Thom McElroy, deputy director of Athletics at UCon, said that's only part of the picture. He said the women's team, and the desire for choice seats, generated $12 million in donations. A public TV station pays $550,000 a year for the right to televise games, and the Huskies also have a statewide radio network. The Hartford market is also one of the 30 largest in the U.S., and it has no professional teams to compete for fans and sponsors."

Texas has the largest deficit of all Division I-A schools even though it is one of the pioneer programs in the country. Even the Lady Vols are just a break-even program and they have an average attendance of 15,510.

Tim Weiser, athletic director at Kansas State said "if we continue to do business that way, that model will crash and burn." By model, I believe he was referring to gender-equity issues and a bull market for coaches.

There are nine WBB programs in the Big 12 alone with deficits over 1 million dollars. 41 programs nationwide in Division I-A.

mred, to answer your question, I think football and women's basketball have such high expenses (scholarships, travel, facilities, recruiting, etc...) compared to all other sports.

I do not know how to link the article for you all. John Maher is with the Cox News Service.

[This message has been edited by Zo3157 (edited 12-08-2002).]

[DBLTFarmer]

Texas finished 6th in the Big 12 in attendance with 5,456 avg per game.

Kansas State and Notre Dame both finished in the top 10 in attendance and finished in the top 20 deficit programs mentioned above.

When you look at some of the teams and programs that are mentioned and not mentioned it makes you wonder how these figures are established.

[Bob_Ballew]

swok, the article states, "Men's basketball, on the other hand, brings in a nice chunk of revenue. Profits averaged $1.7 million in 2001, up from $1.6 million in 1999. Men's basketball showed a profit of $1.26 million at UT in 2001. Kansas cleared almost $6 million and Kentucky more than $7.5 million. A big plus for the men's programs is that the lucrative NCAA tournament returns money to conferences, a windfall that can bring some teams almost $1 million."

I sure can't contradict these numbers, but I know the men's programs are ahead of the women's by light years. It is certainly sad.

[mred]

By the way, here is the link to the Statesman article accompanying the table of teams:
http://www.austin360.com/statesman/editions/sunday/news_3.html

[Jimi]

I see the year they are talking about is 2000-01. That makes it easier to understand the Kansas State numbers they sited. In 00-01 we had didley for revenue. Likley much less than $100,000. Attendance was considerably less and many of the tickets were free. This year my organization would have to pay $4.00 a ticket for GA seats even if we order 2,000 of them for our sponsorship game. And thats in addition to a fairly healthy sponsorship fee. BTW in 00-01 no one sponsored games and K-State would not have dreamed of asking.

I think the scholarship expenses are a little bogus. They reflect full list cost and very few people really pay that. In addition how much more does it really cost KSU out of pocket if there are 10 to 15 extra students spread out through the university. What ever it is it sure is NOT list price.

In addition I think the more I read about NCAA accounting the more I think it resembles the movie or recording industry. In short I don't think they do accounting the same way you and I do.

Having said all that I am sure that the team will still cost, not earn, big bucks this year.

[This message has been edited by Jimi (edited 12-08-2002).]

[swok34]

In short I don't think they do accounting the same way you and I do.

They don't in figuring graduation rates either......I was talking to an OU student the other day who is writing a paper on athletes and academics and the graduation rates. He made the comment to me about Ryan Humphries, who transferred from OU, went to Notre Dame and once he graduates....neither school will get credit for his academic work.....

Thanks, Zo....the article I read was 3/4 years ago and done who knows when.

It's the NCAA payout that's killing women's basketball....think of the dollars it cost to put on the thing...and those cost to hold 1st and 2nd rounds are passed on to the hosting university..or at least, I think they are.....I know OU has to guarantee the NCAA they will receive "X" amount of dollars and that's been figured in to who hosts and who doesn't.

So, who's getting the TV money, or is there any "TV money" in women's basketball? Look what the Big XII is raking in from football every year......the past 3 (including this year) there has been a Big XII team in a BCS bowl....$11 to 13 million dollars...one game.....one day. WOW.

I watched my tape of the UConn/OU game done by CPTV...which is public television, they begs for money at the breaks http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif Though a Connecticut fan told me that some of them cannot get seats and they gladly pay/donate $100 to watch a game on CPTV.

[This message has been edited by swok34 (edited 12-09-2002).]

[This message has been edited by swok34 (edited 12-09-2002).]