Personal Observations You Won't Like.

[Texmex]

1. Grant looks like a keeper. Surprised how much poise she played with for her first D1 game. Tech will need her, along with Perkins, Pierson and Greenwalt, because that's all they've got. Texas will wear 'em out.
2. GOOD GRIEF! I've never seen a TT team as out of shape as this year's. Ritchie and Miklanette are beach balls and Jolee was soooo slow. Marsha better get 'em off the buiscuits and gravy if she expects to compete in this league.
3. Impressed with the OU freshman, Welch. Good floor game and fearless, she's going to get much better as the season progresses. Their transfer, Schne%6#!f(+cht, looked good. Agile and quick for her size but need's to be more physical. OU does not have much of a perimeter game yet, I'd like to see their JC point guard play more than she did Sunday (fouls). I believe OU will finish somewhere in the middle.
4. Ain't seen the Lady Horns play yet, but based on what I saw today, I say dat K State and dem Horns are the teams to beat.

[ChipperF1]

Interesting personal observations...

"1. Grant looks like a keeper. Surprised how much poise she played with for her first D1 game. Tech will need her, along with Perkins, Pierson and Greenwalt, because that's all they've got. Texas will wear 'em out."

For a kid fresh out of high school, Grant played a very good game. She made the typical freshman mistakes, but she also made a number of plays freshman don't make. There's a ton of upside to her, and the Texas Longhorn have no one in their backcourt who can run an offense that good. And don't say Jamie Carey, because we don't know what she can do after being away for more than a year and being a concussion risk.
Until Texas proves they actually have a backcourt, I'd suggest you hold off on the talk about "Texas will wear them out".

"2. GOOD GRIEF! I've never seen a TT team as out of shape as this year's. Ritchie and Miklanette are beach balls and Jolee was soooo slow. Marsha better get 'em off the buiscuits and gravy if she expects to compete in this league.

I'll agree on Tennal. She looks like she could use Slim Fast for breakfast, Slim Fast for lunch and a sensible dinner. But Ritchie was more of out of sync than out of shape. Jolee Ayers played okay, but wasn't aggressive like she showed at points last year.

"4. Ain't seen the Lady Horns play yet, but based on what I saw today, I say dat K State and dem Horns are the teams to beat.

I say we wait until we start Christmas shopping and we all have some ballgames under our belt. Even with some holes in TTU, Texas Tech stayed in the game. It's early, its one game in a long season, and Marsha Sharp is no dummy. She's been to the rodeo before.

Remember dem Horns last year? Early in the season? Lost to Miami. Later in the season? Beat Tennessee. In the postseason? Lost to UC-Santa Barbara.

The point? It's only one game, and there's a lot of basketball ahead.

[TRH]

Actually Chipper you are confusing dem Horns with dem Techsters. UT beat UCSB. They lost to Duke in the round of 16.

That TTU has a great freshman PG is "granted". However, there are some of us who have seen Jamie Carey and other UT guards play. I don't know that Jamie Carey can guard Erin Grant. However, Texas has two freshman guards of their own with the same type quickness and speed. They also have a senior guard in Tai Dillard who has the same type speed and quickness and seems to be healthy for the first time in a couple of years. And, while Jamie has a different type game she will be a handful to guard too. She appears to be in great shape, has the same accurate quick release, the same no-look laser passes, and the same leadership skills.

I don't think that the idea that UT guards could wear down TTU guards is that far from a reasonable expectation. I don't know if they will be able, but I do think that will be the plan.

And, I don't know what will happen when the two teams play - but, whatever it is it's gonna happen fast.

[BigUtFan]

I do not think I will be as blunt as the first post, but I was very impressed with Grant and all the pressure put on her by the media etc. She had a solid game, along with some freshman errors, that was to be expected. La. Tech seemed to shut down Pierson in the 2nd half and Perkins has a very quiet 16 pints. I just don't know where the rest of TT was. There players did seem out of shape and not in sync with the game. Where was Greenwalt? There post defense was pretty bad, but in today's DMN Sharp said she would get that corrected and she will. I wa surprised that La. Tech beat them with all of the new players that were brought in.

Chipper...this one is for you....You and everybody for that matter, are going to be surprised at Carey. She is the REAL DEAL for UT. We can't continue to focus on her past injuries. She is in shape and ready to play ball. I think UT does have major depth and will keep up with Grant. Think a platoon system....Carey, Dillard, Cobbins. Norman, Reed etc.

Coach Sharp....Congratulations on your induction to the Hall of Fame. You are a class act and a damn good coach. The Big XII is very proud of you and as a UT fan, I am proud of you and your accomplishments as well.

[doubleT]

Texmex...don't hate! TT and texas will decide this one on the basketball court. It's kinda early to be making such generalizations about a team after just one game, but that's ok because soon you'll be eating your words.

Actually this year's TT squad is the most physically in shape I've seen. Everyone worked hard in the offseason to improve their athleticism and game. It's funny you say that about Ritchie and Tennal, considering they're two of the strongest on the team...they are constantly in the weight room. I guess you haven't gotten a chance to see Tennal's range, but you will soon. Yeah, Grant and Norman have met before, and Grant ate her for breakfast, lunch and dinner. I'll wait to make any assumptions about texas' guard play because I really have not seen them play yet. However, I'm pretty sure texas doesn't have a pair who are as good as Grant and Perkins. We'll just have to wait and see.

[BigUtFan]

Double TT......it's not about hate. It is about observations that was seen on ESPN(2) yesterday. Other than Pierson and Grant, no one else showed up for the game. Don't be too quick to judge UT and there guard play. Grant may have outplayed Norman once, but don't look for it to happen twice!!!

[DblT81]

I have no reason to doubt what UT fans say about Carey is true. We saw that one former Pac10 FOY is a quality player yesterday.

A Longhorn fan did doubt the preseason gushing over Erin Grant. Its only one game, but I think Grant demonstrated her potential yesterday to prove Tech fans are correct.

Its not surprising that a Tech fan or two might be skeptical about the praise for Carey until her play can be seen by many. I suspect she will be a great player for UT.

Grant played against Norman in HS but those matchups were influenced by the teammates around them and by coaching. I suspect Grant had advantages in both. Let's wait to see them play in Lubbock and Austin before we declare who has an edge now.

[35TangoTango]

I think what Texmex is saying is that Texas, up to this point is the season, has demonstrated absolutely no weaknesses!

[BigUtFan]

Originally posted by DblT81:
I have no reason to doubt what UT fans say about Carey is true. We saw that one former Pac10 FOY is a quality player yesterday.

A Longhorn fan did doubt the preseason gushing over Erin Grant. Its only one game, but I think Grant demonstrated her potential yesterday to prove Tech fans are correct.

Its not surprising that a Tech fan or two might be skeptical about the praise for Carey until her play can be seen by many. I suspect she will be a great player for UT.

Grant played against Norman in HS but those matchups were influenced by the teammates around them and by coaching. I suspect Grant had advantages in both. Let's wait to see them play in Lubbock and Austin before we declare who has an edge now. Points very well taken and I certainly do agree with you about Grant's performance yesterday. She really is going to be an incredible player.

[the cableguy]

Tennel and Ritchie being "constantly in the weightroom" might be part of the problem with their lack of quickness. Is the whole team constantly in there as well? Maybe that explains Tech looking winded in the second half.

[Texmex]

Cableguy, you've got to be kiddin.' The weightroom at Tech must have a buffet and icecream bar, because that ain't muscle you're lookin' at on those kids. They're not in shape, not even close.

[Bob_Ballew]

Texmex, give the ladies a break. Most of the posters on HoopScoop don't appreciate ragging on any particular individual player as you have indicated. They read these message boards also.

[the cableguy]

I agree with your assessment, but I'm used to monitoring Raiderpower.com, which everything needs to be politically correct. Please forgive me!

[Raider Boy]

You know it is crazy that some people can watch one game and automatically think they are basketball experts. However, the comments that are being made have nothing to do with basketball...Have some class, because I'd venture to say that Ritchie or Tennel can whip any of us on the basketball court.

[elfdenmom]

One thing that distressed me against La Tech was the lack of hustle plays. Ritchie's shots were not falling, but she did make hustle plays! Tennal's shot was falling, she just didn't take enough of them.

[JK]

If all teams can avoid the major injury bug, K-State, Tech, and UT will be the frontrunners for the Big 12 title. People who look at what's happening in November and think that's the way it will be in late February and March OBVIOUSLY have no clue. Those of you who want to get on ths site and insult the players need to get off these girls' backs and stop making so many RUDE, UNINTELLIGENT, and UNEDUCATED comments. Go to www.getaclue.com (http://www.getaclue.com) and post your insults!

[This message has been edited by HoopScoop (edited 11-12-2002).]

[ISU3PointLand]

It amazes me how defensive fans can get when a valid criticism is made about their team. Texmex has a point about some players maybe not being in the best condition. Instead of taking up the issue and rationally discussing it, it seems some posters on here feel they have been personally attacked and have vowed to beat down the offender.

Folks, GET OVER IT!!!!

Texmex's comments were not insulting at all. He made an observation, maybe it wasn't phrased in the most constructive way, but I can think of a lot worse things to say.

I've noticed, as have others, the sharp decline in posts from Northern Division schools. Personally, I felt like everytime I posted an observation, I was attacked, and after a while, it just gets boring. When I make a post now, it's to report a fact, something that can't be disputed, refuted or rebuffed. You can only be put down so many times before you just decide to go find another playground.

[This message has been edited by ISU3PointLand (edited 11-12-2002).]

[doubleT]

ISU3pointland, you need to stop eating the biscuits and gravy...you look like a beach ball!! Would you want someone sayin that about you? Don't think so. Has Texmex seen these girls play in person this season. I don't think so. Have you? I don't think so. Is it March? I don't think so. I'd say it's a safe bet to wait a few games before "attacking" players about being out of shape. Go back and read who attacked who in these posts. I argued the facts as I see them and texmex is entitled to his opinion, but I certainly did not attack him...if anything, he made the attack on the players!

You know I could have easily commented back to texmex about one of Texas' best players being overweight and slow, but I didn't go there. Unlike others, I realize that the players and their families do read these message boards and I have a little more respect for them than that.

[This message has been edited by doubleT (edited 11-12-2002).]

[ISU3PointLand]

Thanks for proving my point doubleT.

[doubleT]

NO, thanks for proving mine ISU...

you say: "Texmex's comments were not insulting at all" well I beg to differ...

If you wanna bash the players (for reasons unknown to us) take it somewhere else please, cuz I don't wanna hear it and I'm sure they don't either.

[ISU3PointLand]

Well, doubleT, if you feel that saying, in your own opinion, that "players look unconditioned" (which is the interpretation that I got out of TexMex's post) is an insult, then so be it. But to be honest, I've seen hospital pudding with thicker skin. (PS, THAT was an insult).
http://hoopscoop.net/ubb/smile.gif

[This message has been edited by ISU3PointLand (edited 11-12-2002).]

[This message has been edited by ISU3PointLand (edited 11-12-2002).]

[BigUtFan]

Here are the facts....do not insult these girls/women that are out there working there butts off for our viewing pleasure. They work hard in the off season, they go to classes, practices etc. Who are we to say that someone is as big as a blimp? My previous post indicated that this was one of the first teams in a long time under Sharp that seemed out of sync and out of shape. Nothing obtrusive said and I am entitled to my opinion as all others are as well. Don't know who someone was referring to at UT as being slow and overweight, but obviously you have not seen the revised version of this person. She looks great. I do agree with ISU that when certain things are said about certain teams, boy does the aggression come out. Point in case...TT fans and Baylor fans. I guess my point is...if you talk smack, be prepared to receive it!!! However, leave the cruel comments out...............

[35TangoTango]

Let's remember the Chipper Rule (which I now can't find)! No personal insults to players.

In all fairness, This was Texmex's first post here, and he obviously didn't know the difference between HoopScoop and your average board. I think now he does.

Just for the record, mex - this is a conference wide board, and we like to think that we are extraordinarily polite to each other. It kind of sets our community apart from some of the others.

Also, as someone pointed out recently, is is possible that some players may also read this board on occassion, and common decency dictates that we refrain from insulting those who after all are the reason we are all here.

I know I find that if I take a few extra minutes to think about what I'm saying, I can usually find a less offensive way to say it (unless I am replying to the Stanford Troll).

[catladyok]

I'll never be one to accuse anyone (player or otherwise) of being too heavy. Heck, every time I jump up to yell during a game, I darn near pick up the whole row of seats, bolts and all!

YEE-HAWW!



------------------
BIG XII RULES!

[DBLTFarmer]

ISU3point,

I have been watching this board for three years and have seen very little smack talk here. Thats one of the reasons I like it. Its people talking basketball and not a bunch of BS like on the first post. Calling Ritchie and Tennal beachballs and getting them off biscuits and gravy is way more than an opinion, it is insulting. Saying Texas will wear'em out is nothing but smack talk.

I dont care if it was said about any team in the country it would still be insulting and smack talk. If you wish to support this talk here, Im sure you will find that intelligent and tactful conversation will leave this board!!

[Press]

Originally posted by soonerman:
Let's remember the Chipper Rule (which I now can't find)! No personal insults to players.

In all fairness, This was Texmex's first post here, and he obviously didn't know the difference between HoopScoop and your average board. I think now he does.

Just for the record, mex - this is a conference wide board, and we like to think that we are extraordinarily polite to each other. It kind of sets our community apart from some of the others.

Also, as someone pointed out recently, is is possible that some players may also read this board on occassion, and common decency dictates that we refrain from insulting those who after all are the reason we are all here.

I know I find that if I take a few extra minutes to think about what I'm saying, I can usually find a less offensive way to say it (unless I am replying to the Stanford Troll).

I have a feeling Texmex isn't a newbie, really.

[ChipperF1]

Chipper's guidelines when he posts an opinion (Take these anyway you want.)

1. If you are going to say a player isn't good, have facts to support the contention. General things such as "she can't guard anybody" doesn't feed the bulldogs. A specific thing such as, "Jia Perkins beat her on 9 straight head-to-head confrontations in the game" does.

2. Having an opinion on a player's ability in game situations is fair game. Having an opinion on a player's effort or discipline is fair IF you can show evidence of a lack of effort. (i.e. playing worse in tough situations, giving up in situations, seems out of sorts on the bench etc.)

3. An criticism based on race, gender, orientation, looks, etc has nothing to do with the ballgame, thus won't appear in the post.

And the most important thing.

4. Differentiate the team from the fans.
I can honestly say that I've never met a ballclub I didn't like in womens basketball.
Now fans? Different story.
Some of the anti-Nebraska crap I get from certain fans who are based in Polk County, Iowa and or around "The Center Of Broadcast News Operations In Denver" doesn't diminish my respect for Bill Fennelly and his team one bit, or my respect for Ceal Berry or her kids one bit.
The sniping lack of perspective of many UConn fans doesn't diminish my admiration for the Huskies nor does the whining rant of many Stanford fans diminish my respect for the Cardinal.
The coaches and the kids have ZERO to do with the fans.

Do I follow these 100% of the time? LOL! No....but I do bat close to a thousand. I'm no saint, and I don't put this up to say I am, but the tone of this conversation is concerning because of one thing I've seen in the beautiful internet fan underground that womens basketball has.

You would be surprised as to who you may run into at some ballgame sometime. It could be the person you flamed last week.

That's the cool part of this deal. At some Final Four or Big 12 Tourney or wherever, you might meet a Elfdenmom or a Press, or Jimi. I had a chance to meet ISU3pt, and he was a good guy. I look forward to return our lunch engagement in Ames. And the wild thing is, him and I had difference here, and we'll still have some, but there will be less rancor involved, because we saw each other's face.

Talking smack is okay. I talk more than my fair share, but there is a fairness to it. If you say it, be ready to defend it if its about the ballgame. Don't get personal and don't take it personal, while remembering the other person is just that...a person.

And again about players. That kid is somebody's daughter, somebody's granddaughter, somebody's neice, somebody's girlfriend, somebody's best friend, somebody's teammate, and there are people on this earth who love her very much.

[DblT81]

Texmex aka *noshot* posted almost the exact same message on Texas Hoops.

I didn't mind his opinion that Texas will be better than Tech. It might be smack but it was fairly harmless.

He could have said that Tech's players looked overweight and in need of serious conditioning. But instead he chose to be personally offensive.

I suggest he go back to conversing with the juveniles on TexasHoops.

[elfdenmom]

That's right, Chipper. You may meet me at a game, and if you trash my Lady Raiders, you may be looking out of two black eyes!