WNBA Brawl in Detroit (vs. LA)

[40ishHorn]

Wow. Detroit Assistant Rick Mahorn appears to shove Lisa Leslie to the floor in the video shown on the local news, but I would like a better look as he was acting as a peacemaker according to most accounts. And to top it off, Cheryl Ford leaves in a wheel chair after hurting her knee while trying to restrain Plenette Pierson. The brawl happened with 4.6 seconds left in the game.

DeLisha Milton-Jones shoved and punched Mahorn after the incident with Leslie and was ejected, along with Mahorn, Candace Parker and Pierson. Deanna Nolan and Shannon Bobbitt received technicals. Yowza!





http://sports.espn.go.com/wnba/recap?gameId=280722003

[ChipperF1]

This was one of the best brawls I've seen in a ball game in some time.

This was low, but high comedy...

Plenette Pierson chested up to Candace Parker after some intense boxing out.

I think the WNBA is in the news cycle for a few hours

[AngelSong20]

I'm glad to see Chipper's take on this because that's how I saw it too. I've watched the video several times and it looks to me like Plenette was going to "chest up" and say something to Parker, but then Parker threw a punch and took her down. Of course all the people on the WNBA boards are defending Parker, who of course had to "defend herself" against big bad Plenette. What a load! Plenette is a veteran, and if Parker doesn't take her down, I think we might have seen a double technical, but not a brawl like that.

[YCN]

I'm not going to comment on the incident, except for the following.

I did however watch the game live and watched the endless replays from all angles as provided by ESPN afterwards.

Expect quite a few suspensions, some more severe than others.

[CowgirlsFreak]

It's Pierson's rep that is leading to everyone defending Candace. Pierson did not even give Candace a chance to stand up. If you watch it, yes Candace took her down, but Pierson was charging at her and was over Candace while she was trying to get up.

With the rivalry and hatred between the two teams and coaches, the emotions are high, and attitudes got the best of both teams. Sad to see assistant coaches getting involved and to see Ford go down.

[LadyBuff]

It is still being played all over the news this morning. I was watching the game last night and could now believe what I was seeing.

[giraffespots]

Did you see Bobbitt come out and try to shove Rick Mahorn? Then she jumped back away as fast as she could, still trying to bounce and bob. That was too funny for me.

I think the Mahorn/Leslie incident was unfortunate, however, I DO think they are both telling the truth. I believe Leslie was just trying to help her teammate and that Mahorn was just trying to keep the peace. Leslie tripped over her own two feet. Mahorn didn't shove her down even AFTER she hit him. IMO, Leslie is too much of a veteran to not know that when there is a brawl, you don't go charging in for whatever reason.

As for Pierson, wow. She did bump Parker intentionally on the box out, but Parker hooked her arm (while stealthily keeping her own arm down) and threw Pierson to the ground. That's when Pierson jumped up and tried do that "chest up" thing while Parker was still on the ground. So Parker just grabbed her again and slammed her to the ground again. Then, IT WAS ON.

IMO, Pierson does have a rep as being a rough and physical player, ok, thug maybe, but don't kid yourself, Parker is no angel and don't forget, Parker went after Ford the play before because Ford ripped the ball out of her hands (note, Ford was walking away). Bottom line is, if Parker had not thrown Pierson to the ground during the FT, Pierson would not have tried to walk over her while she was on the ground. When she did that, Parker slammed her to the ground AGAIN.

I agree that this will be both good (in a small way) and bad (in a slightly bigger way). Obviously, the WNBA doesn't want the reputation of being a thug league, however, this IS causing the WNBA to be the talk of the day, probably for a few days. The biggest loser in all of this is Cheryl Ford.

[AngelSong20]

I'm really worried that Plenette is going to get scapegoated for this, even though if you watch the videos, it is clear that Her Rookie Highness is the one that escalates everything. But there are a lot more people who buy tickets to watch Parker play then there are people like me who have been following Plenette since day one.

[ChipperF1]

Candace Parker hooked Plenette Pierson's arm and took her down, Plenette took exception and confronted Parker, and in turn Parker tackled her. In my mind, Parker and Pierson should each get a 1-2 game suspension. Neither should get more or less than the other.

Oh by the way...On the Ford play where Parker got into it with her...All I can say is, Parker really needs to watch her mouth and hope young kids don't lip read what she said to Ford.

[Ryan Hyatt]

Hold on . . . someone isn't worshiping at the altar of C.P. ??????
Off with Plenette's head!
Hyatt

[Matt Coatney]

Hyatt

This kind of makes your Big 12 Arm Wrestling Match pale in comparison! The last time we had a brawl in the Big 12 (that I can remember) was Kansas/Missouri in the post-game handshake line many years ago.

They've brought up that Mahorn is a "peacemaker" and tried to help restore order in the NBA's Ron Artest game when he went in the stands when Mahorn was doing radio for the Pistons. I have to think that if things got "ugly" in the Big 12, Hyatt would be my top candidate for the first radio guy "into the fray"!

Matt

[Ryan Hyatt]

A few years back I was calling a Tech-Texas Baseball series in Austin and it started to look like there was going to be a brawl between Tech players, UT fans and various political protesters that were living in trees at the time around Disch-Falk Field.

I looked down at the other radio booth and decided that if it was "Go Time" my partener, Mark Finkner, could have former Cub and Philly Keith Moreland while I'd take my chances with Bill Schoening. Luckily a gang of toughs known as The Cooler Heads prevailed and order was restored before I had to watch Finkner get beaten into a bloody pulp.

HYATT

[Bball Girl]

Candace Parker hooked Plenette Pierson's arm and took her down, Plenette took exception and confronted Parker, and in turn Parker tackled her. In my mind, Parker and Pierson should each get a 1-2 game suspension. Neither should get more or less than the other.

Oh by the way...On the Ford play where Parker got into it with her...All I can say is, Parker really needs to watch her mouth and hope young kids don't lip read what she said to Ford.

Thank you Chipper - exactly what I saw.

Plus - Ms. Precious Parker was doing more than her share of elbowing, grabbing and shoving prior to all of this.

Pierson is NO more physical or rough than any other player in the league - a thug - no way. She contributes her share. As does Ms Precious Parker. Parker's little shoves as if to say - "get away from me, you're not in my league" would make me want to chest up to her too! She's got tremendous talent and potential and a tremendous sense of entitlement. I was waiting for someone brave enough to take her on. While I don't condone fights and confrontations at all - I like to see players like Ford and Pierson who have EARNED their stripes let Precious she too has to learn hers.

I agree that both deserve a 1-2 game suspension.

[jcarter]

was Pierson like this at TT? I don't rember it could be Laimbeer influence
he was a thug when he played

[ChipperF1]

jcarter, The only thuggery I saw in the situation was from Candace Parker...and that woman really needs her mouth washed out with some soap...

[40ishHorn]

Plenette Pierson has always been a very tough player....thug....not so much. Will be interesting to see if Parker matures with time.

[jcarter]

let's see Parker got a rebound Ford comes ove and rips the ball away
Nolan bumps into Parker then Parker and Pierson get tangled up
Pierson walks over to Parker not for to see if she's ok btw
the Shock are known for playing dirty at times wonder where that came
from Laimbeer maybe.

[Press]

Plenette Pierson does not back down from anyone, never has, never will and I love that about her. I don't like seeing stuff like this happen, but I think Parker is cocky and runs her mouth too much and I'm sure the veterans are sick of it.

[jcarter]

I agree I don't like things like this to happen

[hornsofthedillema]

Wasn't Parker going to play on the Olympic team? Will this effect her play there? The games start 8/8/08, don't know when basketball will start.

[40ishHorn]

I don't really see how this could effect her participation in the Olympics one iota as there's no official correlation between the two organizations. Delisha Milton is also on the USA team. WNBA shuts down Sunday until after the Olympics.

[AngelSong20]

let's see Parker got a rebound Ford comes ove and rips the ball away
Nolan bumps into Parker then Parker and Pierson get tangled up
Pierson walks over to Parker not for to see if she's ok btw
the Shock are known for playing dirty at times wonder where that came
from Laimbeer maybe.

Whoops, I think you forgot the last line of your post, let me help:

"Pierson walks over to Parker" then Parker throws a punch and pulls Pierson down -- but of course it's the Shock that were playing dirty, not Her Rookie Highness (whose mouth should appear in the dictionary next to the word "dirty")

[CowgirlsFreak]

It is open to interpretation who was holding on to who after the VERY physical bump on the block out, which was an unnecessary hip check by Pierson. After both players falling, that should have been the end of it. Parker was on the ground getting up and Pierson was running at her screaming. (where is everyone calling for her mouth being washed out?!?) Pierson on the way over tried to land another hip check on Parkers face while she was getting up, resulting in Parker taking Pierson down. Then came the melee.

[jcarter]

the way she walked over to Parker wasn't for peace
what was Parker supposed to do let het kick her or worse?
she was on the floor

[Bball Girl]

jcarter, The only thuggery I saw in the situation was from Candace Parker...and that woman really needs her mouth washed out with some soap...

Yeah Chipper!!!


Bad news - is that Ford has a torn ACL - happened when she came down for the rebound, just gave out on her during the scrum.

Pierson should NOT have continued the tangle - she should have walked off. But since Parker chose to pull Pierson down, we'll never know what would have happened from there on.

[giraffespots]

the way she walked over to Parker wasn't for peace
what was Parker supposed to do let het kick her or worse?
she was on the floor


By that point, yes, she has a right to protect and defend herself. The problem is that SHE is the one who brought it to that point in the first place. She tussled with every player out there. The Detroit players just weren't all ga-ga over her "amazingness". Parker needs to get over herself and just play ball. We know she's good, but all that attitude is just going to get more of what we saw last night.


Parker and Ford, then
Parker and Nolan, then
Parker and Pierson

jcarter, What is the common denominator here?


Sorry, I just can't help myself. Everytime I see Pierson walk over Parker :rotflol:

As for Pierson being a thug, I have heard her called that. Personally, the only WNBA player I would consider a "thug"-type player is Mwadi Mabika. She's scary. (TOT, if she was still around)

I have read two columns on this. One I agreed with heartily, the other not so much. Jason Whitlock talked about Leslie and Mahorn and I agreed with pretty much all of his thoughts, except maybe for the last bit.

[zip]

IMHO, Parker has always been cocky - the STARE - has p!$$ed me off more than once. And she runs her mouth waaaay to much. I commented multiple times about this during her college career.

I think something like this was bound to happen - as she is being put on a pedestal like the princess savior of the WNBA. I'm sure it galls some of the veteran players.

Is Parker a great player - of course, no doubt about that. BUT her cocky attitude and the running her mouth, is bound to have repercussions, and I think we saw the result last night.

[jcarter]

yeah Laimbeer and the bad boys tried those tatics when they
played on LA, Celtics and so on hum I wonder where the Shock got
those tatics? hum
they all tried to gang up on one player
oh btw this isn't the first time Pierson has been envolved
in somthing like this

[BearLady]

I do think that Big Bill had a conscious strategy of being physical with Parker during the game last night, in the hopes of seeing her emotions peak and spill over. He sure has plenty of appropriate candidates who can work on that objective. Now that he's accomplished that objective, I'm sure that a few other teams may follow suit.

Whether it's Parker or somebody else, how many times have we seen the Shock players be very physical with opponents? Many, in my book.

A local tv station's talk show showed a replay of the incident again tonight. When I saw it unfold during the game last night, I clearly thought that Pierson was the aggressor and that her actions were totally inappropriate. During tonight's replay, with the benefit of having read preceding comments on this thread, I did see that Parker hooked her arm through and helped start the collapse. However as Parker was lying on the floor, in my mind, Pierson clearly came charging after her.

It was an unfortunate and ugly incident. But somewhere back in the locker room, I couldn't help but think that Big Bill was giddy and laughing. And thinking that any suspensions were well worth it.

[zip]

Voepel's take and I completely agree

http://sports.espn.go.com/wnba/columns/story?columnist=voepel_mechelle&id=3502251

[jcarter]

Loree Moore had this to say speaking of Shock
They are going to be that dirty type of team and push you around, throw some elbows and try to be the bully,'' Moore said. " Every time we play them, we always seem to stand up. We come out shaky in the beginning, but we always seem to stand up when we need to.

[OSUCowgirls]

Voepel's take and I completely agree

http://sports.espn.go.com/wnba/columns/story?columnist=voepel_mechelle&id=3502251

But the bottom line is that when things crossed the line, Pierson was involved. And unfortunately, that's no surprise.

I also agree with Voepel.

[swok34]

Big Bill had a conscious strategy of being physical with Parker during the game last night, in the hopes of seeing her emotions peak and spill over.

I have a feeling we may see some of this in our Big XII games this year.

[zip]

I have a feeling we may see some of this in our Big XII games this year.


I was thinking EXACTLY THE SAME THING!!! I sure hope not, but I can see it happening.

[wildcatfan]

I agree that CP was given way too much slack in college and it didn't help her get ready for the WNBA at all.

She needs to worry more about her game and less about how everyone should worship the ground she walks on.

[AngelSong20]

Hmmm, normally I tend to agree with the well-reasoned take of Michelle Voepel. I really wasn't expecting her to be another stupid cow worshipping at the altar of Her Rookie Highness. :mad:

[BearLady]

Well said, Mechelle!

And, swok, I agree with you.

[Scamp]

Mel Greenberg weighs in on Tuesday night, with some ABL history, too. (I'd forgotten about that punch.)
http://blogs.phillynews.com/inquirer/womhoops/2008/07/wnba_boxing_rings_eclipsing_ol.html

[DblT81]

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2008-07/41169875.jpg

Who initiated the takedowns, both times? Candace Parker.

Who was the most physical between the two?

Plenette should have walked away instead of jumping up and standing over Parker, no doubt. But Parker could have also taken the high road and not taken Pierson down, twice.

Voepel is wrong on this one. I agree with Chipper. Both players deserve suspension. Parker deserves much of the blame for this incident no matter what Laimbeer's game strategy was.

[TTU79]

The WNBA needs to have someone on the sideline who can read lips. A significant bit of what Parker says is beyond taunting. I call her Miss Nasty Verbosity and Diana Taurasi is not far behind.

[Guns Up!]

oh btw this isn't the first time Pierson has been envolved
in somthing like this

Whoops, another correction for jcarter.

"isn't the first time Pierson OR PARKER have been involved."

[Guns Up!]

Loree Moore had this to say speaking of Shock
They are going to be that dirty type of team and push you around, throw some elbows and try to be the bully,'' Moore said. " Every time we play them, we always seem to stand up. We come out shaky in the beginning, but we always seem to stand up when we need to.

:rotflol::rotflol: Same thing could be said about Tennessee too!

[Guns Up!]

Voepel's take and I completely agree

http://sports.espn.go.com/wnba/columns/story?columnist=voepel_mechelle&id=3502251

"Coach Pat Summitt's legendary discipline seemed to take a vacation when it came to some aspects of Parker's demeanor that didn't become anyone, let alone a star of her stature, at such a visible program."

Dead on with that one. At least Voepel got that one right.

Nice smear job Voepel did on Plenette. Wonder when the one on Precious will be posted.

Looks like Lisa Lezlie has two babies to raise now! :eek:

[Guns Up!]

http://www.latimes.com/media/photo/2008-07/41169875.jpg

You'd think with her new Adidas contract that Parker would get rid of those nasty Tennessee orange shoes!

[AngelSong20]

The WNBA needs to have someone on the sideline who can read lips. A significant bit of what Parker says is beyond taunting. I call her Miss Nasty Verbosity and Diana Taurasi is not far behind.

I'm just curious because I haven't seen the video. You make it sound like what she said was even worse than the barrage of F-bombs that DirTy continually releases?

[swok34]

Since both teams play tonite, the WNBA is expected to announce punishments prior to the games.

[Scamp]

NEW YORK (AP) — The WNBA swiftly suspended the Detroit and Los Angeles players and Shock assistant coach Rick Mahorn for their role in a skirmish at The Palace of Auburn Hills.

Shock forward Plenette Pierson was suspended Thursday for four games for initiating and escalating the altercation in what was the harshest penalty.

Mahorn was suspended for two games as were Shannon Bobbitt and Murriel Page of the Sparks.

Players suspended for one game included: Detroit's Kara Braxton, Tasha Humphrey, Elaine Powell and Sheri Sam along with Los Angeles' Lisa Leslie, Candace Parker and DeLisha Milton-Jones.

WNBA president Donna Orender issued a statement that said the events Tuesday were inexcusable and were not indicative of what the league stands for.

http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jJNjaRHkIuUyQnK-SOFxgd1b2-ygD924BOU04This is outrageous! Parker should have been suspended for 3+ games.

[jcarter]

Whoops, another correction for jcarter.

"isn't the first time Pierson OR PARKER have been involved."

I like last year in the finals when she and Diana Taurasi
got into it

[jcarter]

:rotflol::rotflol: Same thing could be said about Tennessee too!

let's Tennessee has the #1 program in WCBB :)

[40ishHorn]

I disagree with Voepel's take (which is rare). I disagree that Pierson deserves a longer suspension than Parker. In fact, I find that outrageous!!! The Candace Parker kid glove handling is sickening and I doubt she'll learn anything from this incident except reinforced bad behaviour, so she's got more hard knocks coming her way (of her own making).

[AngelSong20]

Damn, I knew they were going to scapegoat Plenette. Let me channel DirTy and Her Rookie Highness for a moment, this is such F@$*ING B@$*S@%T! I actually usually liked watching Parker play, but now I'm gonna be cheering for every hard hit that lands her on her a$$! Here's to bruises! :mad::mad::mad:

[jcarter]

Shock have help tonight Nancy Liberman retuns to play at 50
http://www.wnba.com/shock/lieberman_080724.html

[AngelSong20]

http://www.wnba.com/news/suspensions_080724.html

WNBA Announces Penalties
From Shock-Sparks Game
Posted Jul 24 2008 1:47PM


NEW YORK, July 24, 2008 – In response to the events at Tuesday's game between the Detroit Shock and the Los Angeles Sparks, WNBA President Donna Orender issued the following statement:

"The WNBA and its players represent all that is good about sports: passion, hard work and sacrifice. On a nightly basis our players display extraordinary skill, athleticism and competitive fire. The events Tuesday, however, were inexcusable and in no way indicative of what the league stands for. We hold our players to a very high standard and these suspensions should serve notice that the behavior exhibited at the end of Tuesday’s game will not be tolerated.”

The suspensions follow:

Shock forward Plenette Pierson has been suspended for four games for her actions that initiated and escalated the altercation.

Shock assistant coach Rick Mahorn has been suspended for two games for escalating the altercation.

Shock center Kara Braxton has been suspended for one game for leaving the area of the bench during an on-court altercation.

Shock forward Tasha Humphrey has been suspended for one game for leaving the area of the bench during an on-court altercation.

Shock guard Elaine Powell has been suspended for one game for leaving the area of the bench during an on-court altercation.

Shock forward Sheri Sam has been suspended for one game for leaving the area of the bench during an on-court altercation.

Sparks guard Shannon Bobbitt has been suspended for two games for leaving the area of the bench and becoming physically involved in an on-court altercation.

Sparks guard Murriel Page has been suspended for two games for leaving the area of the bench and becoming physically involved in an on-court altercation.

Sparks center Lisa Leslie has been suspended for one game for throwing a punch.

Sparks forward DeLisha Milton-Jones has been suspended for one game for throwing a punch.

Sparks forward Candace Parker has been suspended for one game for throwing a punch.

As is league policy, in order to enable the Shock and Sparks to dress the minimum number of players (eight) for games affected by the penalties, the dates on which players will begin serving their suspensions will be staggered.

Pierson and Mahorn will begin serving their respective suspensions with tonight's game at Houston. Braxton and Humphrey will serve their suspensions tonight as well. Sam will serve her suspension on July 27, when the Shock hosts San Antonio. Powell is injured and will serve her suspension at a later date after being medically cleared to play.

Bobbitt will begin serving her suspension with tonight’s game at Connecticut. Leslie, Milton-Jones and Parker will serve their suspensions tonight as well. Page will begin serving her suspension on July 25 when the Sparks visit New York.

What an absolute load!!! Good thing I'm at work, does anyone know where to buy a Candace Parker punching bag?

[Guns Up!]

So "leaving the bench" and "throwing a punch" deserve the same punishment? Who knew? :rolleyes:

[Dale8R]

Leaving the bench is standard even if you just stand there and watch. It is unfortunate that except for not understanding the leaving the bench area rule that this guy got it pretty close to right while the powers-that-be got it all wrong, really wrong. http://bleacherreport.com/articles/40650-wnba-shock-sparks-suspensions-shocking

I didn't count the number of times that DeLisha Milton-Jones whacked Mahorn in the back, but it was certainly more than "a punch."

I can actually see where Plenette might get the heaviest penalty, but four? Parker one? Three and two maybe. Lisa Leslie? I didn't see her throw a punch, though she said she "tried" to hit Mahorn as she was going down, so maybe they're punishing her for honesty. Virtually everyone agrees that Mahorn's actions were unintentional. I expect he'll stay on the bench the next time. The rest of them seemed about right, given the rules and the circumstances.

Edit: I finally did see an angle which showed the punch Lisa Leslie tried to throw at Mahorn. I also saw several relatively little people trying to whack away at him. I doubt that they did much damage, but to his credit, he did not respond in kind. If he had, he probably would have had a lifetime ban for knocking them into the third row. DM-J started off with a two hand shove in his back followed by a hatchet chop. I couldn't tell who the others were.

[ChipperF1]

The stars got off light. Plenette got the shaft. If Plenette got 4 games, Parker should have..too.

The WNBA has sent a message loud and clear. We will protect the big-market stars and teams at any expense.

[jcarter]

Doris Burke said baised on her history Pierson should have gotten more because she instegaed the incident

[40ishHorn]

The stars did get some special treatment. The Western Conference is also much tighter than the Eastern, so it looks like LA was "protected" just a tad to make sure they're in the playoffs to showcase said stars. :rolleyes:

Doris Burke is wrong BTW. We'll see how that works when Miss Parker has had time for a "history" in the WNBA.

[AngelSong20]

Doris Burke said baised on her history Pierson should have gotten more because she instegaed the incident

Well let's review shall we? Two players, one on each team. Both fight for a rebound, both end up on the floor. Player A gets up and walks over and starts yelling at Player B. Player B swings her left arm at Player A's head, then wraps her right arm around Player A's waist and pulls her to the ground. Melee ensues. Why would Player A deserve the stiffest penalty?

Oh wait, I forgot. Player B has a lot more fans that buy tickets to see her play, that explains it all.

[jcarter]

here's the whole quote gee she mentioned Diana suprise
She was just on sportscenter (thur, 5pm CT).

She said the suspension of 1 game was fair for Candace because the league viewed her actions as reactionary.

She said that Rick Mahorn's suspension should have equaled Lisa Leslie, if they agreed that he was trying to be a peacemaker. (I dont understand that because LL was suspended for phantom punch.... anyway... )

She mentioned Diana Taurasi...(are you surprised her name was brought into this?!) She said that DT got 2 games for berating the officials last year, and what Pierson did was worst, therefore she should have gotten more games.

[giraffespots]

She mentioned Diana Taurasi...(are you surprised her name was brought into this?!) She said that DT got 2 games for berating the officials last year, and what Pierson did was worst, therefore she should have gotten more games.

So, if you get angry at a ref, don't yell at him. Go punch the other player. The penalty for yelling at the ref is 2 games, throwing a punch only lands you 1 game.

As for Parker's actions being reactionary, I think that is total BS. Since I am an old geezer, here's a similar story for you.

My big dog, Bud, was in his back yard minding his own business. The neighbor dog, a cute little thing, crawled under the fence and came at my dog, yapping his head off and trying to pretend he was bad and aggressive. This happened nearly every day for a week.

On the last day of the week, Bud ran into the garage to get away from this dog who naturally followed him. The little dog jumped on Bud's back and scratched and yapped in his ear.

Finally, Bud snapped. He knocked this dog off and proceeded to show him what tough really was. Since this dog didn't have any other friend-dogs (teammates, if you will) to defend him, he got his A** whupped and ended up in the doggy hospital.

His owner turned Bud in as a vicious dog, whereupon, Bud was eventually put down by the city. Two weeks later, the little dogs owner brought him over to my front door to happily and excitedly let me know that his "Precious" was all better and was able to run around a little.

Of course, by beloved Bud was dead by then, but then he DID instigate the actual fight that put that poor little dog in the hospital.

Now, I will swear to Whomever you want, that this is an absolute true story. Its similarities in principle are pretty much the same as this one.

So I am going to venture that the message the WNBA is sending is this:

Life is not fair, so why should we be?

[TTU79]

This is just so wrong, I don't know what to say. I certainly hopes Parker makes enough money for the WNBA to justify this action, but I sincerely doubt it. I like watching Nancy L. play and can hardly wait to see Parker pull some of her stunts on Nancy. That will be fun to watch if it ever comes about.

[jcarter]

So, if you get angry at a ref, don't yell at him. Go punch the other player. The penalty for yelling at the ref is 2 games, throwing a punch only lands you 1 game.

As for Parker's actions being reactionary, I think that is total BS. Since I am an old geezer, here's a similar story for you.

My big dog, Bud, was in his back yard minding his own business. The neighbor dog, a cute little thing, crawled under the fence and came at my dog, yapping his head off and trying to pretend he was bad and aggressive. This happened nearly every day for a week.

On the last day of the week, Bud ran into the garage to get away from this dog who naturally followed him. The little dog jumped on Bud's back and scratched and yapped in his ear.

Finally, Bud snapped. He knocked this dog off and proceeded to show him what tough really was. Since this dog didn't have any other friend-dogs (teammates, if you will) to defend him, he got his A** whupped and ended up in the doggy hospital.

His owner turned Bud in as a vicious dog, whereupon, Bud was eventually put down by the city. Two weeks later, the little dogs owner brought him over to my front door to happily and excitedly let me know that his "Precious" was all better and was able to run around a little.

Of course, by beloved Bud was dead by then, but then he DID instigate the actual fight that put that poor little dog in the hospital.

Now, I will swear to Whomever you want, that this is an absolute true story. Its similarities in principle are pretty much the same as this one.

So I am going to venture that the message the WNBA is sending is this:

Life is not fair, so why should we be?

I do think the refs did a poor job in this game
they should have steped in and not let it go as far as it did
Parker didn't want to play in Conn anyway she won last 2 time there :p

[Bball Girl]

the stars got off light. Plenette got the shaft. If plenette got 4 games, parker should have..too.

The wnba has sent a message loud and clear. we will protect the big-market stars and teams at any expense.

bravo chipper!!!!!

and as Voepel said
At Tennessee, Parker was indulged even when she slipped into posing, petulance and even a kind of taunting attitude on the court

Guess it will continue in the WNBA. Catching was coddled at Tennessee too - I didn't care for her at all, she whined if someone bumped her and protested when she flattened an opposing player and they called a foul. But when she got to the WNBA - she grew up because she wasn't indulged - she was another player earning her stripes and her playing time. She's one of my favorite players today.

But Parker will continue to be indulged thus continuing her attitude of entitlement.

Pierson can be a hot head - no doubt. But it takes 2 people to have a fight.

[CowgirlsFreak]

With all this CP3 didnt get the appropriate suspension. I figured I would bring in Deanna Nolan. Why didn't she get any suspension at all? She was right in the middle of it all and was on top of CP3. I think she should have gotten a suspension.

Pierson tried to hip check CP3 in the face as she was trying to get up. CP3 then took her down because Pierson was violently coming at CP3 and screaming. CP3 got what she deserved, and so did Pierson.

The only thing that should be in question is as to why was NOLAN not suspended?!?

[jcarter]

good point I think Nolan should have been suspended

[LadyBuff]

The stars got off light. Plenette got the shaft. If Plenette got 4 games, Parker should have..too.

The WNBA has sent a message loud and clear. We will protect the big-market stars and teams at any expense.

Exactly. And the treatment of Tennessee by referees is why I don't watch Tennessee and always hope they lose.

[BearLady]

So why was it that Nolan did not get suspended?

The pbp team was talking about the 'incident' during last night's first game and they mentioned that some thought Nolan should have been suspended. And that they would get to that later.

I think I had a phone call when they resumed talking about the brawl and didn't ever hear an explanation re Nolan. Does anyone know?

[jcarter]

I know what we can do next time Sparks and Shock play
have Pierson try to guard Parker 1 on 1 :rotflol::rotflol:

[40ishHorn]

I'd like to hear the reasoning on Nolan's consideration as well. She didn't leave the bench because she was already on the floor, so they can't site her for that? She didn't throw a punch.....tackling OK? What are we missing? :confused:

[Bball Girl]

I wondered about Nolan too. And why Milton Jones who actually clearly threw a punch only got 1 game but Bobbitt got 2 (cause she left the bench??).

Here's an interesting take on it.

http://www.sportingnews.com/blog/TageRyche/160798

Pierson deserved what she got - but Parker should have gotten the same.

In reading the boards, what I find amusing is how the UConn and Tenn fans all still think their players deserve special treatment.

I think the WNBA needs to look at their rules and apply them fairly. Didn't Elaine Powell get 5 games for throwing an elbow to someone's head a few years ago. That seems excessive in light of these suspensions.

[TTU79]

Wow, right on the money BBall girl! The rationale for these suspensions still have my head whirling. I agree Plenette deserved what she got, however, what she got is not right in comparison to the other suspensions.

[Scamp]

Didn't Elaine Powell get 5 games for throwing an elbow to someone's head a few years ago. That seems excessive in light of these suspensions.In 2005, Elaine Powell punched Coco Miller as they ran down court together. It was far more than a thrown elbow. (Earlier that year, Powell got into a fight in Poland and broke an opponent's jaw.) The five-game suspension for Powell seemed right to me then, since the punch looked deliberate. By contrast, the melee the other night was spontaneous.

[zip]

Voepel thinks Candace should have gotten more games - yes, she should have. I've never liked her on court demeanor. Someone posted a link to the youtube video of the Parker "stare down" of a poor girl (in college) who was just trying to score on her.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=wv89YAFsRwE

I've seen this type of action by Candace far too many times in her college career. Voepel says that the taunting, aggressive type of behavior is not appropriate for her rookie season in the WNBA and I agree.

In my opinion, Candace's on court, mouthy behavior contributed to the WNBA melee - did it CAUSE it - no. Did it contribute, probably.

http://sports.espn.go.com/wnba/columns/story?columnist=voepel_mechelle&id=3507018

[40ishHorn]

I said this earlier, but I still think the WNBA braintrust had an eye on the standings when the punishment was doled out. The Shock had practically clinched a playoff spot in the East and the Sparks were in the jumbled up West fighting for the last slot.

Four games later, Detroit is now just a 1/2 game out of 1st place (having lost 4 in a row) and LA is a 1/2 game away from the precious Candace Parker and new Mother Lisa Leslie not even making the playoffs. The WNBA has invested a lot in promoting the league using Parker's face and they love the fact that Leslie is a new Mom (with a HUSBAND). I know I'm being cynical, but I don't think my theory is entirely baseless (considering some of the shenanigans we've seen in the NBA). This is type of stuff that turns people off of pro sports.....for good reason.

[jcarter]

here's what Pat Summitt said
Pat said: "I know a lot of people said she should've just walked away from it. When you are as fierce of a competitor as Candace you're going to automatically stand up for what you think is right. So I'm not suprised at how she reacted. I wasn't really upset when I saw that. I was just upset that it happened."

[40ishHorn]

Did Pat address Parker's actions and attitude that led to the incident, or just the reaction part?

[jcarter]

that was the only thing Pat said as far as I know
like she said Candace is a fierce competitor

[40ishHorn]

fierce competitor/trash talker/spoiled brat is more like it. I guess Pat will continue as an enabler where Parker is concerned...understandable.

[AngelSong20]

I don't really have a problem with Parker being a "fierce competitor" and not backing down. Where I have the problem is with this idea that "self defense" or "fierce competitor" or "standing up for yourself" somehow mitigates the consequences. Simply put, if you want to play you should have to pay.

[jcarter]

well Pat knows Candace better than any of us do
I have seen Candace play in person I can agree with Pat
and she was on the floor when Pierson strutted up to her in a
discusting way what was she supposed to do let her kick
her or worse

[jcarter]

next time Shock and Sparks play I would not want to be Pierson on a break
Parker will embarass her

[TTU79]

Bless your little heart J Carter, you need to get to an optometrist as soon as possible. Parker played as big a part in that broohaha as Pierson did. They were both wrong and both deserved the same punishment for their behavior. Parker is once again getting away with her immature behavior and no one is calling her on it. No one is saying Parker is not a great player but she is definitely not a great person. Her attitude and potty mouth belie her skill and demeans her team. She is not a role model I would want any young basketball player to emulate.

[Scamp]

[Val] Whiting: Female athletes are allowed to get aggressive, too

... I'm not saying that it's right to fight, but it's understandable. This is basketball. It's a high-contact sport, especially in the paint. You are elbowed, hip-checked, pushed and held. It's a constant battle underneath the basket trying to grab rebounds, getting in front of the post, jockeying for position, bumping the cutters and setting screens. It's physical and intense.

The Shock-Sparks game was very physical and the referees failed to take control. All of that tension played itself out in the last 4.6 seconds of the game.

I know all of the emotions because, in 1999, when I played for the Detroit Shock, I was in a fight. ...

http://delawareonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080729/SPORTS/807290345/1006/NEWS

Val Whiting is a former Ursuline, Stanford and WNBA player who works as an athletic performance enhancement specialist. She co-owns GameShape in Wilmington. Her column appears biweekly in The News Journal. Finally! A former player's perspective on "Malice at the Palace II."

[sybarite]

When Oklahoma played Marsha Sharp-coached teams, I knew that we would face quality and respect. I had never seen any indication of Pierson being a problem. For some reason, she was well-behaved. That doesn't fit the reputation of a thug.

The only part of Voepel's story with which I agree is that Pat pampered Parker, as did the officials. There were numerous games in which she should have been assessed technicals just for her behavior to the officials. Pat let the undeveloped attitude become that of a Brat, and Pat encouraged it. Well, it won her two national titles, neither of which she should be proud of.

I stopped watching men's pro basketball many years ago because it did the same thing. It had a star that thought that he should get every call, and they gave it to him. I don't respect that as sport, and I prefer to watch and play sports.

[giraffespots]

When Oklahoma played Marsha Sharp-coached teams, I knew that we would face quality and respect. I had never seen any indication of Pierson being a problem. For some reason, she was well-behaved. That doesn't fit the reputation of a thug.

The only part of Voepel's story with which I agree is that Pat pampered Parker, as did the officials. There were numerous games in which she should have been assessed technicals just for her behavior to the officials. Pat let the undeveloped attitude become that of a Brat, and Pat encouraged it. Well, it won her two national titles, neither of which she should be proud of.

I stopped watching men's pro basketball many years ago because it did the same thing. It had a star that thought that he should get every call, and they gave it to him. I don't respect that as sport, and I prefer to watch and play sports.

Could that possibly be that when Pierson played OU she was not goaded, taunted and pushed around so that she couldn't take it anymore ? I have a very hard time with those who say Pierson instigated this incident. Yes, she was the one who physically approached Parker in a threatening manner, but this incident was instigated by a full game of aggression on both sides. Parker was the one constant on the LA team. In 3 or 4 separate incidents throughout the game, she got into it with different Shock players. In fact, immediately before the contact with Pierson, Parker had to be held back from going after Cheryl Ford. The only reason the brawl did not occur then is because Ford turned and walked away and Leslie grabbed Parker.

I agree with you, Syb, 100% about the article.

[TTU79]

I think you and I saw the same thing in that game giraffespots.

[jcarter]

you can't root aginst her right now
http://candaceparker.com/forum/userpix/6773_181_29401_29a6f63db82a11c_1.jpg

[MsProudSooner]

you can't root aginst her right now
http://candaceparker.com/forum/userpix/6773_181_29401_29a6f63db82a11c_1.jpg

Hopefully, she won't embarrass the entire country in front of the world.

[jcarter]

well she will just be another time for her to win another championship or gold medal
and be on top again

[sybarite]

If the USA wins a gold medal, will Tennessee fans claim that she won it?

[jcarter]

she will have a big part of it no doubt
this team has alot of great players
Bird, Catchings, Taurasi, Leslie, Augustus and others

[hornsofthedillema]

I'm willing to agree that if the USA women's team brings home the gold, every player that has worked out with the team, every coach that has talked with the players and been supportive, every fan that supports and encourages, has a big role in the victory.

If the USA women don't win the gold, but play well and make us proud of their sportspersonship and talent, I'd say the same thing.

If, however, as we've seen with the NBA stars playing on the Olympic team, the women show the inability to really grasp TEAM and committment to the TEAM over the aggrandizement of the self and need to always be individually RIGHT, I will worry for the success of the USA women's team. I will feel it's time to go back to the idea of having the less selfishly talented players represent our country and let those who want to commit to the team aspect of the game play. That's what will make me proud.