Nike Camp College Counselors

[carolann]

The Purdue fan forum on mrhoops.com (http://www.mrhoops.com/forum/) has an interesting thread about college players acting as counselors at the recent Nike camp. According to Purdue fans at the camp, every team in camp had a college player as a counselor. Among the counselors were Diana Taurasi, Alana Beard, and Nicole Powell. The counselors’ duties included talking about college life in general and the college players’ schools in particular. Wow, surely this is a big recruiting edge? This is where Taurasi, Powell, and Beard were instead of playing USA basketball. Maybe the players’ made the Nike committment before USA basketball announced its dates. Maybe it is as simple as the counselor job pays. Or, could it be that being a Nike camp counselor is considered more prestigious, and more beneficial to one’s basketball ‘career’ than playing USA basketball? That is a sobering thought to me.

Mind you, I am not casting stones because if the University of Texas had a counselor at a camp attended by a possible
Texas recruit, I'd probably be pleased as punch.

[35TangoTango]

In all fairness Carolann, the girls you mentioned all played USA ball last summer. They may well be over the age limit for this team.

[carolann]

True, Soonerman. On an individual basis, I have absolutely no way of knowing why a player made a particular choice and no right or reason to judge. I guess we will see in the future if there is any kind of 'trend'.

[YCN]

carolann,

Wouldn't receiving money from Nike for being a "camp counselor" constitute monetary payment for your basketball skills? It seems to me that such a payment would make those players considered as professionals by the NCAA, and no longer eligible for collegiate play.

Anybody know more about this?

[OhMandy]

YCN

College players routinely work as camp counselors in the summer to earn money. They work their own coaches camp along with many others. I know a few LA area college players and they work 5-7 camps each summer.

This isn't a violation at all. Though you do bring up another example of how hypocritical the NCAA rules are. I mean I can take a coach who is making good money out for a $100 dinner and everything is fine. But if I buy a student-athlete a 39 cent cheeseburger it's a violation?

[YCN]

I thought that any outside money-earning activity that was related to your college sport was forbidden.

Is this the Nike rule?

Is the NCAA becoming "Free Shoes Association"?

[DblT81]

Originally posted by soonerman:
In all fairness Carolann, the girls you mentioned all played USA ball last summer. They may well be over the age limit for this team.

soonerman, Powell may be too old but the other girls are not over the age limit for the current USA Young Women's team. If they played last year on the USA team, they were eligible this year. The birthdate cutoff of Jan. 1, 1982 was the same for last year's team, this year's team and will be the age for next year's team representing the USA in the World Championships.

Another comment-women's basketball has sunk into the corporate controlled quicksand that the major men's sports have been in for years. Either your school is a Nike school or they will lose out on these very golden opportunities to influence the top girls HS players. The top of the hill in women's college basketball has become an elite club for only those who play the game the top corporate sponsors want them to play. Expect to hear the same teams in the final four for a very long time. An occasional surprise will pop into the elite 8 sometimes, but the rich will only get richer. And the NCAA will do nothing to change it because of the money involved.

[This message has been edited by DblT81 (edited 07-21-2002).]

[ChipperF1]

"And the NCAA will do nothing to change it because of the money involved."

And how can the NCAA change it? Are you gonna tell a school NOT to go after a sponsorship opportunity?

Tons of womens hoop fans from Maine to Maui whine about this, but come on folks Its a free market system. The people who do well will get more than those who don't.

And why exactly is a Texas Tech fan moaning about this? I see Nike Swooshes on the uniform. Marsha Sharp has a shoe deal, and the Lady Raider have a gem of an arena, and a television network. I don't see the problem here.

Even with all the "advanatages" it comes down to what you do on the floor, and with more kids picking up a basketball, there's going to be a wider talent pool. The rich may get richer, but more folks are going to have the chance to get rich.

[DblT81]

The NCAA doesn't need to stop sponsorships obtained by the schools, but they need to look into athletes working for such companies.

I can't give gifts or employ a Tech player in the summer because I'm an alumni. If I COULD and did give a gift to a player or a potential recruit, my ultimate benefit would be that these players would take my favorite team to the top of wcbb and I would have a happy heart. A proud kind of happy.

But Mike Flynn, who is supported by Nike, can pick which players from certain teams he wants to employ and he can influence potential recruits about where they should sign. His ultimate benefit is being happy too. A going to the bank kind of happy. A 'I gotta buy new pants with deeper pockets' kind of happy. If Nike schools are winning the championships, he is in the money. So it is in his best interest to control the placement of players or at least influence them as much as possible.

Whether Tech participates in this or not, it still make me worried about the ultimate impact on the game.

I agree there are more talented kids out there-meaning more teams have a shot at the Elite 8. But it is still the top two or three players coming out each year that will be the difference to take their teams to victory in the championship. If the top 10 players each year are influenced to sign with specific schools due to the star power of the counselors at these camps, it will force more schools to sign with those corporate sponsors or be left out.

Recruiting is not a free market system. SMU's football boosters tried to get the best football players money could buy and the NCAA said that wasn't fair. Why should a business with a financial stake in the outcome of wcbb's annual NC get to do what a "booster" cannot?

The Purdue fans on the message board listed counselors from the following schools: Connecticut, Duke, Stanford, Penn St., Georgia, North Carolina, LSU and Vanderbilt. The rich get richer.

[This message has been edited by DblT81 (edited 07-22-2002).]

[DblT81]

Based on this http://www.ncaa.org/eligibility/cbsa/amateurism.html it doesn't sound like the college players can be paid for participating in such camps. If they are participating on an amateur sports team, they can be reimbursed for or provided "playing apparel, equipment and actual and necessary travel, and room and board expenses". They cannot be given gifts or other benefits (e.g., vehicle use, jewelry, meals) because of athletics ability or reputation.

So Nike and the schools get their message out pretty cheap.

[OhMandy]

Look working at ANY summer basketball camp isn't a violation of NCAA rules. They do allow athletes to work at summer camps. Almost every top program has a summer camp where the players on the team work to make extra money.

I don't see a problem with Nike having a camp. If another company like Reebok or Adidas had a camp they would hire players from schools they had contracts with.

[DblT81]

Do you have a problem if the man that runs the camp also has a prominent recruit rating service and he threatens to reduce recruit's ratings if they even consider attending a school that is not a "company name" sponsored school?

There must be an exception to the NCAA amateurism rule if they are compensated to work camps.

[DblT81]

From the NCAA membership guide to recruiting: It is not permissible for a student-athlete to receive compensation from a professional sports organization or team for employment at the professional team’s youth camp during the summer. However, it is permissible to work on a volunteer basis, without compensation, at the professional team’s youth camp during the summer. (Staff interpretation 5/6/94, Item b.)

As far as camps by recruiting services, all I see is that Div I coaches and staff are not allowed to participate in such camps. No prohibition that student athletes can't participate in those camps, but compensation is controlled.
Compensation may not be paid on the basis of the value that the student-athlete may have for the employer because of the
athletics reputation or fame the student-athlete has achieved. It is not permissible to establish varying levels of compensation for a student-athlete employed in a sports camp or clinic based on the level of athletics skills of the student-athlete.

-----------------
The head honchos at the NCAA know summer camps are ripe for abuse:

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
Tuesday, July 20, 1999

COMMENTS OF KENNETH SHAW
CHANCELLOR, SYRACUSE UNIVERSITY
CHAIR, DIVISION I WORKING GROUP TO STUDY BASKETBALL ISSUES
PRESS CONFERENCE, CHICAGO, JULY 20, 1999

"It was nearly a year ago that the Division I Board of Directors created this working group and charged it with examining any and all issues that have a significant impact on the sport of Division I basketball. The group was asked to make appropriate recommendations, legislative or otherwise, to be reviewed through the Division I governance structure......

There are three recommendations in the area of recruitment, and all three are designed to increase the influence of high school or junior college coaches, reduce the impact of nonscholastic influences and keep a spotlight trained on the recruiting process to assure that the scholastic environment remains strong in the lives of prospective student-athletes.

The first recommendation would strengthen the process for certifying basketball events in which prospective basketball student-athletes participate.

Specifically, and in addition to current requirements -

During the academic year, evaluations would be limited to regularly scheduled high-school and two-year college events under the supervision of those coaches.

During the academic year and summer, events would have to have approval from the National Federation of State High School Association or National Junior College Athletics Association. They would have to provide full financial disclosure, and no agents could be involved in the management or operation of the events.

All summer camps and high-school foreign tours at which basketball coaches can evaluate prospects would have to provide financial disclosure, including sources of funding, how many teams are funded, how much the funding is and for what purpose the funding is used.........


[A] recommendation that some may argue is missing [from this report] is the elimination of the summer recruiting period. The proponents of that position have argued eloquently that nothing is so important to addressing the current culture of negative influence on young prospects than eliminating the impact of summer camps on the recruiting process."